Is it possible to make up for less magic with higher ability scores?

[Asmor]

There's nothing wrong with the Vow of Poverty, but it removes character choice. Everyone has the exact same abilities and power-ups as everyone else.

That's why we chose the more feats / stat bumps route.

Players still get to choose which ability scores to boost, and they need to prioritize them as well since they all have different levels of power. I don't know if that's enough to really differentiate characters, but I suspect that it is.

 

[Imp]

Yeah, I give 'em high ability scores/ point buy to start with, which helps low-level survivability a bit. Also extended skill uses w/ stunts, and action points. Currently toying with a series of affiliation-ish disciplinary bonuses for extra bumps at higher levels, which may be powers characters can transfer to their "signature" items. I don't know about that part yet - still toying with it.

Just because I don't personally like the ol' magic item christmas tree syndrome doesn't mean I want to CRUSH CHARACTERS BENEATH MY IRON HEEL OF TRUE FUN.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

Why shouldn't it work? What is the difference between giving a class a gradual BAB/Damage* hike in place of magic weapons? Sure, they won't be affected in anti-magic fields, but it would sure make keeping track of party wealth a TON easier!

*Or ... scale the saves to make up for the lack of cloaks of resistance, AC bonus to make up for armor (actually, just use the class defense bonus in UA), etc.

 

[SeRiAlExPeRiMeNtS]

Never mind

 

[molonel]

Players still get to choose which ability scores to boost, and they need to prioritize them as well since they all have different levels of power. I don't know if that's enough to really differentiate characters, but I suspect that it is.

In my opinion, it's not. Everyone gets True Seeing at a certain level. Everyone gets endure elements at a certain level. Everyone gets a deflection bonus at a certain level, and a natural armor bonus at the same level. Everyone gets the same magical bonus to their attacks as everyone else - the wizard gets the same bonus as the fighter who gets the same bonus as the rogue who gets the same bonus as the cleric etc. etc.

 

[Emirikol]

Well this is what I'm trying to do right now: (I don't know how to do a proper table here)

I think those are great ideas. In my past lower magic games, here have been the solutions:

Bump all ability scores one point every 5 levels
Additional bonus feats every 3 levels.

I dont' really care about AC. PC"s are going to get hit if their AC is less than 1200 anyways from my experiences, so it comes down to HP's and players being less reckless than a typical D&D toe-to-toe-combat game.

I had 2 characters killed by lions at 10th level in this campaign. At first, I thought the players would be pissed, but it turns out, they keep telling me how much more fun they have with the feelign that the "middle levels" are extended.

Most people say their favorite levels are the mid-levels..so I guess that's true.

My goal now is to find out how to "extend" those middle levels.

jh

 

[Hussar]

IMHO, a simple bump in point buy at chargen will make up the difference for PC's up to about 10th level.

I like to use 7th level as an example. A 7th level fighter has by RAW, 19k in equipment. That's a +1 weapon, +1 shield, +1 armor, +2 stat buff item, plus some sort of movement buff item like a rope of climbing or somesuch. Perhaps a bag of holding. Depends on the campaign.

Effectively, the PC has +2 to hit (assuming Gauntlets of Ogre Power) +2 to damage (possibly +3), +2 AC and an item that will come up sometimes. If you go from 25 point buy to 35 point buy, you get exactly the same effect. Str and Dex both get bumped to give the same bonuses. Granted, the movement bit isn't there, but, then again, with the stat bonuses to skills (and quite possibly more ranks due to Int), it won't make a huge difference.

The difference between a fully loaded PC with a 25 point buy and a base PC with 35 isn't all that large. At least until double digit levels. That's where the magic items tend to make a bigger difference. But, since you want to keep things to low and mid levels, point buy at chargen should make up the difference nicely.

 

[rounser]

Why not just make them gestalt, tone down the items and call it a day?

 

[S'mon]

It makes up for stat-boost items, and maybe for weapons, but not for AC-boost and other defensive magic. Magic-less high-stat PCs hit hard but are very vulnerable.

 

[Hussar]

It makes up for stat-boost items, and maybe for weapons, but not for AC-boost and other defensive magic. Magic-less high-stat PCs hit hard but are very vulnerable.

Not really. The only difference at 7th level is 2 points of AC. The biggest difference at all will be 10 points, as far as armor is concerned. Emrikol is correct that PC's will almost always get hit anyway. At least with the primary attacks. The only real difference is how much power attack the monster can dump in.

As I said, up to about 10th level, the differences are very, very minor. After 10th the ball game changes.