Is "Justiciar" the new "Rogue?"

[Halivar]

I came to this thread believing that "justiciar" is the one and only spelling appropriate, but Cam changed my mind. I just now remembered that there is no such thing as an "English Language Institute," and there is virtually no authority available for linguistic grognards to declare what is officically "English." Heck, English teachers cannot even agree on whether a comma precedes the conjunction in a list (the single most infuriating recurring flip-flop in American English). On top of all that, English teachers on the other side of the pond (you know, the real English ones) think our English teachers are all backwards for perpetuating our "American vulgarisms" on a language that's shaky enough as it is.

My newly held opinion: if Shakespeare can make up 3,000 words out of thin air without English teachers complaining, WotC is allowed to make one, too.

EDIT: Cam, please take no offense. All my friends are English teachers, and I have an immense amount of respect for anyone who can make sense of what is, from what I understand, the hardest language on earth to learn. Strunk & White may be the bible to me, but the MLA handbook is the necronomicon.

 

[ArmoredSaint]

...WotC is allowed to make one, too.

But they didn't. Look again at the smuggled photos of the PHB; WotC spelled "Justiciar" correctly.

It seems pretty evident that the misspelling "Just-I-Car" enjoys such currency because White Wolf spelled it so in the original Vampire game. I strongly suspect it was either a misspelling, typo, or editing error. I doubt they meant to invent a neologism either.

I think the fact that WotC bothers to spell Justiciar correctly in the 4th edition Player's Handbook puts the nail in the coffin of the notion that the English language has "evolved" and "Just-I-Car" should be accepted.

Like it or not, guys, the name of the Paragon Path in question is "Justiciar," not "Justicar." WotC chose breathe new life into the archaic term rather than go with the crowd that just wants to pronounce a word a certain way "because it sounds more badass."

I reserve the right to poke fun at anyone in my gaming circle or FLGS I catch mispronouncing the word.

 

[Marius Delphus]

All my friends are English teachers, and I have an immense amount of respect for anyone who can make sense of what is, from what I understand, the hardest language on earth to learn.

Icelandic, Hungarian, and Japanese are said to be well up there as well, IIRC.

 

[Halivar]

...puts the nail in the coffin of the notion that the English language has "evolved"...

The notion that the English language is a complete mutt of a language was recognized by philologists long before Gary Gygax decided to write the rules for Chainmail.

If language doesn't evolve, then this ought to pass through a spell-checker.

 

[Marius Delphus]

Dreaded double post.

 

[ArmoredSaint]

The notion that the English language is a complete mutt of a language was recognized by philologists long before Gary Gygax decided to write the rules for Chainmail.

If language doesn't evolve, then this ought to pass through a spell-checker.

I'm not saying that languages do not evolove; I mean only that English has not yet evolved in the direction of replacing "Justiciar" with "Just-I-Car."

 

[breschau]

I don't deny that Justicar is a word used in Vampire (prior to the recent revision) or, for that matter, that it's used in other places. However, I'm still pretty damn sure it's spelled that way as a result of a typographical error nobody caught, and that it has no bearing on the correct use and spelling of Justiciar as it's been included in 4e D&D.

The only flaw in your logic is that if a word appears a few times with the wrong spelling, that's a typographical error. If it appears consistently, in many books, across companies, across platforms, across editions, that's no longer a mistake, that's intentional by a whole lot of really smart people. At that point it does become either a new word or an alternate spelling to the original. The alternate spelling is more widespread (from the numbers and the two overlapping discussions here); it really was a shock to a lot of people that the longer spelling even existed.

What determines correct use? The dictionary. What determines what's in the dictionary? Common usage. The longer spelling has historic roots, so it's in the dictionary. The shorter is more widely used, but by a traditionally ignored subculture. They're both equally valid. Where/when/why it originated is irrelevant. It's still just as common if not more so than the older spelling.

 

[Halivar]

I'm not saying that languages do not evolove; I mean only that English has not yet evolved in the direction of replacing "Justiciar" with "Just-I-Car."

You are correct about that; however, I would posit that "justicar" is at least a prevalent part of D&D jargon. Jargon, IMO, is above rules of standardization because it is exactly what it needs to be for two people within an affinity group to communicate.

If someone says "just-a-car" (I will not be that someone), I will know what they mean. And when I say "just-ish-ee-ur", they will know what I'm saying. Communication is successful, and there is therefore no reasonable cause for criticism (although I have have been known to stoop to rank pedantry simply for my own amusement ).

 

[ArmoredSaint]

Y...although I have have been known to stoop to rank pedantry simply for my own amusement ).

And who's to say I'm not doing the same? I did label this thread with a "Humor" tag, after all...

 

[Cam Banks]

EDIT: Cam, please take no offense. All my friends are English teachers, and I have an immense amount of respect for anyone who can make sense of what is, from what I understand, the hardest language on earth to learn. Strunk & White may be the bible to me, but the MLA handbook is the necronomicon.

No offense taken, don't worry. It's only the Internets!

Cheers,
Cam