Is killing a Goblin who begs for mercy evil?

TheSword

Legend
For me it depends. If the PCs are attacking the village because those goblins have been raiding the city then have at it. If you’re attacking the village because you don’t like goblins and want their stuff then I’d probably say that’s pretty evil... as evil as the goblins are at least... or maybe moreso as they aren’t doing the raiding.
 

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Alzrius

The EN World kitten
Nothing wrong with having objectively Evil races to fight in an escapist RPG.

If Goblins are Evil; Then the killing of Goblins = Smiting Evil.
"In the end, the only good goblins are those who never show their faces to the light of day."

So sayeth a known expert on all things goblin:

goblin-slayer-goblins-crown-1172676-1280x0.jpg
 



No, the mere fact the goblin isn't bound to the evil alignment by the gods does NOT mean the act of killing it becomes evil.

Heroes kill monsters all the time. Trying to distinguish between "righteous" and "wrongful" kills, and trying to shame some adventurers but not others, is the only crime as far as I can tell.

Either you accept that murder is murder (and presumably go play something else), or you accept that at its basic fundamental level, D&D is a murder simulator, realize no actual goblins were harmed during the production of this scenario, lighten up, and gleefully return to the exciting adventure! :)
If you put down a rapid dog it doesn't matter if it's charging at you or hiding in the corner whimpering, it's still a rabid dog.
 

Filthy Lucre

Adventurer
My friend and I are wondering about alignment for our upcoming Pathfinder game. We want to use the alignment system correctly but we differ a bit on the interpretation of the rules. We would like some input from more seasoned players.

My friend says that if he were playing a Paladin, and he were to attack a Goblin village (race with evil alignment) he would probably spare those who surrendered, or those who were weak or children etc. He would feel that if he were to kill those Goblins who begged for mercy that would be an evil act, disastrous for the Paladin (also he doesn't want to do any evil).

I would say (I'm the DM), that based on the rules, I cannot see that killing an evil Goblin would be an evil act under most circumstances. (BTW these are not my personal feelings on the matter, just my interpretation of the rules...let's just leave RL morality discussion out of it). If he were to torture a Goblin, or something, that would be Evil, as it is obviously a sentient being. However, I see nothing in the rules that would make killing a begging-for-mercy Goblin an evil act, as the Goblin is an evil creature, and in the very objective morality system presented in the D&D/Pathfinder world, destroying evil is not evil.

My friend then came up with another example, Paladin detects evil on a shopkeeper, who to his knowledge has not harmed anyone (perhaps he's really selfish and dreams of killing others but is too cowardly to do it). Could he slay the man there and then, without committing and Evil act? There I was not sure.

I sort of see the fact that Goblins are, as a race, Evil, as meaning that they are like intelligent wolves, or like Nazis who were evil from birth. They are Evil, just like a Devil or Demon, or a Necromancer. And that destroying evil is inherently good (again, based on the objective morality in the 3.5/Pathfinder Rules, NOT based on my own RL morality), as Evil creatures have an evil nature, and if you allow them to live, they will go on doing evil things, as they desire to hurt, opress and kill others.

So therefore it should be OK to kill them indiscriminately.

However my friend disagrees, and I would like very much to come to a conclusion. I know that we could just house-rule Alignment away if it is a problem, but we have nothing against it, we just want to run it the right way.

So, long-time players. What is your interpretation of this issue? Please try to limit yourselves to the RAW, and the correct interpretation of them. I'm not looking for your personal philosophies on morality and all that, that is besides the point. :)
Alignment doesn't refer to specific individuals but general trends as a group, therefor your premise that all goblins are evil is false, and from there the rest of your argument falls apart.

The very fact that Pathfinder 2e has a codified and explicit options for goblin player characters, and that it does not force them to be evil, is pretty final on this issue.

OP's entire argument is so fallacious that I can't believe this is even being seriously entertained. OP asked for RAW and by RAW not all goblins are evil - it's stated explicitly on page 47 of the CRB and page 180 of the bestiary.


Jesus christ I didn't realize this was started by some schmuck 10 years ago who doesn't even participate in the forum.
 
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Filthy Lucre

Adventurer
Well, I would certainly agree with you if the Goblins were just normal people. But according to RAW, those with an Evil alignment seek to actively hurt, opress, and kill other sentients. So even if they aren't doing anything, they are probably cooking up an evil scheme, or preparing an assault or something. So wouldn't it be like attacking a band of wolves who hadn't done anything, just because you know that they pose a threat to you and would kill you at a moment's notice if given the chance?
According to the RAW, page 47 of the CRB and page 180 of the bestiary, not all goblins are evil. Period. Meaning not only might you encounter a goblin who is not evil to begin with but is nonetheless pressed into the service of evil leaders you might also find goblins who are evil but capable of redemption.

I don't see how your argument has any legs to stand on with one of your main premises being obviously false.


See the above comment.
 
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GMMichael

Guide of Modos
Jesus christ I didn't realize this was started by some schmuck 10 years ago who doesn't even participate in the forum.
Yet here we are, ten years later, with new editions of D&D and Pathfinder, both of which contain alignment rules.

PF2 (according to the SRD) at least went out of its way to say this:
The GM is the arbiter of questions about how specific actions might affect your character’s alignment.

So that settles that argument. Right?
 


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