Is killing a Goblin who begs for mercy evil?

[MattW]

Everything in RP games is dependent on the relative maturity of everyone involved and what sort of game they enjoy.

How old are the Paladin player and his friends? 12 years old? Are they just playing as murder-hobos in a video game? If so, then nobody cares.

Are the Paladin and his friends (allegedly) adults? Do they have an interest in Role Playing? If so, they should be able to discuss things like morality and how disturbing it would be to actually kill a sentient being who was begging for mercy. (The DM should carefully describe the scene. The panic and then the agony as the goblin painfully dies of blood loss and how its last words were something that translates as "At least I'll be with you soon, Mother.").

 

[Doug McCrae]

JRR Tolkien, writing in 1959 or 1960, thought that orcs deserved mercy. JRR Tolkien and Christopher Tolkien, Morgoth's Ring (1993) (emphasis mine):

Though of necessity, being the fingers of the hand of Morgoth, they [orcs] must be fought with the utmost severity, they must not be dealt with in their own terms of cruelty and treachery. Captives must not be tormented, not even to discover information for the defence of the homes of Elves and Men. If any Orcs surrendered and asked for mercy, they must be granted it, even at a cost. This was the teaching of the Wise, though in the horror of the War it was not always heeded. (pg 419)​

 

[socialevil]

Accepting a goblin surrender: honorable and good.

It reminds me events of Postknight 2 (you can find it on apkworlds) Refusing a surrender from/killing a known evil race: not so honorable (unless we're using Samurai instead of the chivalric code), and possibly bordering on chaotic, but not evil.

If the Paladin accepts the creature's surrender, then turn around and stabs the creature when he's not looking: not honorable, definitely chaotic, and probably evil at that point.

 

[TheSword]

The race is irrelevant… what has the goblin done? If it’s been kidnapping and raising local villages as in Burnt Offerings. Then irrespective of whether it surrenders or not I don’t believe summary execution is evil. Not in a world without prisons and rehabilitation and an extensive criminal justice system.

 

[DammitVictor]

It is always a good thing to accept a surrender you believe is being offered in good faith. Knightly orders of chivalry or hospitality might not even allow their members to decline, or to judge for themselves whether or not a plea of surrender is in good or bad faith until it is clearly broken.

It is never a good thing to inflict cruelty on a helpless person under your power, nor to give your word in bad faith to anyone you could challenge openly instead.

If you don't accept these as moral absolutes, you have nothing to say to me on the topic of objective morality.

A goblin begging for mercy doesn't mean their surrender is in good faith. Goblins beg for mercy as a battle cry. On the battlefield, and in the aftermath, a clean death is also considered a mercy. If you don't have the means to protect the goblin prisoner from your allies, you don't have the moral authority to accept a surrender. It's a difficult choice and honorable either way.

Once you've accepted the surrender, you are morally and honorably bound to the goblin's protection. Once you've made your choice, there is no more choice to make.

 

[TarionzCousin]

DMDavid has an article which talks about the dilemma of killing "evil" races' children here: Strong Moral Dilemmas in D&D and the Unwanted Kind that Keeps Appearing

Personally, I don't run or play RPG's to encounter this sort of problem. It just isn't fun for me so I don't put it in the games I run.

 

[mewzard]

It's probably worth noting at this point that in Pathfinder now, Goblins are a core ancestry and are more and more starting to turn away from old Goblin stereotypes (though not entirely).

Hell, you want to talk about the absolute of Alignment, look at Nocticula. She was formerly the Demon Lord of Assassins, Darkness, and Lust. The first Succubus.

Now? She's Nocticula, the Redeemer Queen. A Chaotic Neutral goddess of marginalized artists and protector of the exiled who tempts even those of the Abyss towards redemption.

It was teased as a possibility back in 1e, as one reason she might want to ascend to full godhood.

Morality is so much more complicated than "Elf Good, Goblin Bad", and I'd say it's for the better of any story and adventure to have such struggles. Sometimes you'll make the wrong choice, or even if you make the right choice, you might get burned for it. But being good is often the more difficult, and rewarding, road.

 

[MaskedGuy]

Now? She's Nocticula, the Redeemer Queen. A Chaotic Good goddess of marginalized artists and protector of the exiled who tempts even those of the Abyss towards redemption.

Chaotic NEUTRAL goddess thank you very much.

I like to point out that people seem to forget that Nocticula is very pragmatic sort of god.

Anyway, I do think threads title is kinda telling because it kinda comes across as "well if it was human bandit, would you answer differently?"

 

[CleverNickName]

Anyway, I do think threads title is kinda telling because it kinda comes across as "well if it was human bandit, would you answer differently?"

Yep. Replace the word "goblin" with something unspecified like "humanoid" or "opponent," and the question hits very differently.

 

[mewzard]

Chaotic NEUTRAL goddess thank you very much.

I like to point out that people seem to forget that Nocticula is very pragmatic sort of god.

Anyway, I do think threads title is kinda telling because it kinda comes across as "well if it was human bandit, would you answer differently?"

You're right and I even knew that. I don't know why I typed Chaotic Good. I'll be sure to fix that. And yeah, if changing who the question is about turns it into something horrifying, it was already probably pretty bad.

Yep. Replace the word "goblin" with something species-neutral like "humanoid" or "opponent," and the question hits very differently.

It really SHOULDN'T hit different though. Whether it's Goblin, Human, Dwarf, etc, it's super messed up to just murder someone begging for mercy.

It's one thing if your PC has to kill in self defense, or to stop some immediate evil act, but yeah, just assuming a race is evil and going for the kill when they seek mercy is not what I'd throw under the Good alignment.

Maybe you'll face them again on the battlefield, or via some sort of ambush...or maybe, you might have changed someone's life for the better. Your act of mercy may inspire one to attempt to better themself. Who knows?

I think it's at least worth trying.