D&D 5E Is Neil Gaiman Wrong?

[Weiley31]

I mean, I'm sure you paid good money for it! "Now, Weiley31, you're going to beg me to walk on the d4-covered floor, aren't you?"

Not that I'm judging.

It was worth the Platinum Dragons spent!

 

[Umbran]

Mod Note:

@Snarf Zagyg and @Flamestrike Please cut it out. Neither one of you comes across as being particularly mature or correct, at this point.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

It was worth the Platinum Dragons spent!

Say what you will about the downsides of Covid19, but at least you don't have to pay extra for the mask anymore!

 

[Mirtek]

TPKs could absolutely happene to the avengers or JLA. It won’t because they gotta sell more comics, but only because they gotta sell more comics.

Unless they happen because that will sell more comics

 

[Hoffmand]

After all my years of gaming I can say that the Alpha predator is the current Pc’s party.

Eh. I played lots of tpk’s back in the day.

 

[Maxperson]

Unless they happen because that will sell more comics

Right. It's not as if half of everyone has ever died at the snap of the fingers or anything.

 

[Fenris-77]

No there isn't. I said, "...at its core." That refers to the default rules. Not officiality. The optional rules are official, but they are absolutely not default(core) rules.

I've told you no less than three times now that I'm talking about default, not officiality, and acknowledged that the optional rules are indeed official. I don't get why you aren't accepting that and are trying to pin me down on something that I haven't said or implied.

I am trying to pin you down, but not to be unfriendly, or to pin you to a specific predetermined position that I've decided you inhabit, just to figure out what you're really saying. Several of your posts seemed to imply that you felt the options presented in the core rules, for example those in the DMG, are somehow 'less D&D' than what you refer to as the 'default'. Lets call your attempted separation Core D&D and Other D&D. If you weren't suggesting that former was somehow better, or more 'something' than the latter, if you weren't implying a value judgement of one over the other, what was the point of trying to differentiate the two in the first place?

 

[Voadam]

Ultimately if your table finds the idea of mere mortals defeating godlike dragons unthinkable I'd not put Dragons in there unless they are a plot device. At most tables dragons aren't gods, are killable, and are killed. If its more fun to have the players match wits that's awesome. Of if it becomes some complex skill based challenge go for it.

Just on this note I'm hitting them with a wandering dragon encounter tonight. Mid sized green adult. Random dragon encounters. Oh yeah. They already took out a white in their trip to the lands of the Ice Barbarians, time for some more. Not the epic huge Red that hunts this part of the coast though.

I remember rolling a green dragon random forest encounter in my 1e Greyhawk campaign. The two Wild Elf assassin brothers (maybe third level?) hid under a tree as it flew overhead, then they ran the other way.

 

[Maxperson]

I am trying to pin you down, but not to be unfriendly, or to pin you to a specific predetermined position that I've decided you inhabit, just to figure out what you're really saying. Several of your posts seemed to imply that you felt the options presented in the core rules, for example those in the DMG, are somehow 'less D&D' than what you refer to as the 'default'.

I never said or implied less. They are just not the default rules. The game only assumes the default, so if you go outside of the default rules, even to use the official DMG rules, you can disrupt balance and/or enjoyment(depending on what people like). The DMG even cautions you about using their rules.

I have also said that if you go outside of the default rules, you are altering the default. That should be obvious. The alterations, whether official options or house options, should be made with caution. That is again, per the DMG section on options. I appropriately said that the only difference between home options and official options(as a general category) is that official options are official. I made that distinction for a reason, which you brought up in response to what I was saying.

Official carries a greater weight among players in general, but does not mean that it has greater impact on default. That depends on the particular official or house option used.

Lets call your attempted separation Core D&D and Other D&D. If you weren't suggesting that former was somehow better, or more 'something' than the latter, if you weren't implying a value judgement of one over the other, what was the point of trying to differentiate the two in the first place?

1. Default is what the game assumes.
2. You don't get to alter the default rules, and then say someone is "Manifestly wrong." when he says that the game is about playing superheroes. The default game assumes superheroes. You have to deliberately change the default via official or house options in order for the game to not be about superheroes, and I don't even think you can do it with just official options. You still get mid to high level PCs that can do superhuman things, even if you engage gritty rules and such. You pretty much have to house option the hell out of the game to reduce mid to high level PCs to normal human levels.

 

[Fenris-77]

The comment being replied to suggested that the game was only about superheroic play, and anyone who played any differently or expected anything different might as well not play. That was what prompted the 'wrong' commentary - the suggestion that other play styles were impossible using the core books. The reply then asked are all the options for other modes of play wrong? It was never about the superhero version being wrong, either implicitly or explicitly, but rather about the assertion that the game couldn't be anything other than that without being wrong. So when you slide in a start talking about divisions, and the 'core' versus the 'options' it seems as though you support the notion that no other play style is possible, and, unfortunately from the tone of the posts in question, that anyone who thinks any different is some kind of idiot.

You can see why I'd ask, right?