D&D 5E Is Neil Gaiman Wrong?

[Maxperson]

DnD as written is superheroic past 10th level. Because your housrules make it less so, doesnt make that a fact.

Because of his enacting the optional rules. I don't recall him saying he had any personal house rules, though he may. He's using the optional rules presented in the DMG to make his game more realistic. It's still entirely fiction, but it is more realistic than the default game. It's also very changed from the default game.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Its actually hilarious you level this accusation against me.

You know what I love? QUOTES! Quotes are fun. Here, let me try one.

DnD is a game of Mythic heroes. The rules (and expectations of the game, as evidenced in all settings and adventures) reflect this.

Let's see what I was taking issue with!

The claim (using BOLD) that "DnD" must be played in a particular style. Your style.

And, I would note, that you didn't even both stating 5e. Nope. All "DnD." All editions. All rules.

But not just that!

All expectations.
All settings.
All adventures.

That's right! You aggrandized to yourself the sole, complete, and total authority to tell everyone what "DnD" is. We peons can't even expect anything else. We can't even play a different setting.

No. We all must genuflect at your feet, and play your ONETRUEWAY. Thank you so much for sharing how D&D ... sorry, DnD is meant to be played. I, and everyone I know, apologizes for getting it wrong.

 

[FrozenNorth]

I just had a 15th level TPK. That wouldn't happen to the Avengers or JLA. That said, there is a tonal shift as the PCs gain level and leave alot of "mortal" concerns behind them and as their adventures tend to get bigger in scope -- or, at least, higher in SFX budget.

That wouldn’t happen to the Avengers because the Avengers are a different media than TTRPG. Nothing to do with power level.

 

[Fenris-77]

your way is not the way the game was designed to be played at its core.

Are you saying that there is no hint of my D&D is more official than yours in this post? You are pretty obviously trying to marginalize official rules there, or at least it looks very much like you are. The post you were replying to suggested that the knobs and dials provided in the official rules made it possible to play more than one way (than the superhero way specifically). The above finished your reply. Is there a way to explain your statement that doesn't involve privileging one part of the official rules over another?

 

[Maxperson]

Are you saying that there is no hint of my D&D is more official than yours in this post?

No there isn't. I said, "...at its core." That refers to the default rules. Not officiality. The optional rules are official, but they are absolutely not default(core) rules.

You are pretty obviously trying to marginalize official rules there, or at least it looks very much like you are.

I've told you no less than three times now that I'm talking about default, not officiality, and acknowledged that the optional rules are indeed official. I don't get why you aren't accepting that and are trying to pin me down on something that I haven't said or implied.

 

[Oofta]

People really think PCs are as powerful as The Avengers? My analysis? Some are, many are not. My thougts:

Avengers that do thing no PC can achieve
Iron Man: supersonic flight, armor nearly invulnerable to any conventional weapon, able to lift 70-100 tons. Genius level IQ.
Thor: actual god, effectively infinite strength, invulnerable to conventional weapons, flight, control of lightning and weather.
Hulk: invulnerable to damage, infinite strength, hulk smash, genius level IQ.
Ant-Man: shrinks to subatomic size or goes giant sized big enough to lift several tons
Captain Marvel: Warp speed, able to single-handedly destroy capital ships in a moment, etc.
Spider-Man: not quite as powerful but still lifts several tons, spidey-sense makes him effectively faster than laser beams.

Depends on what version
Scarlet Witch: either a really powerful magic user or can warp reality and completely change the universe depending on depiction.
Captain America

Plausible as D&D PCs
Hawkeye
Black Panther
Black Widow
Dr Strange: I give him a pass even though he opens multiple portals, etc he's just a really high level wizard. Most of the time.

I'll agree with PCs being superheroes when I see a build that is effectively invulnerable to all mundane weapons and can pick up an elephant or 10 in each hand.

 

[Dausuul]

I wish ENWorld had a thread-specific ignore option: "I wish to ignore these people, but just in this one thread where they have gotten into an argument over who said what when."

 

[Weiley31]

I do not go to your house, slap the dice out of your hand, pee on your table, and demand that you play Champions instead.

Now hold on, if it wasn't you then who the hell did that last night at my house??

 

[Maxperson]

Avengers that do thing no PC can achieve
Iron Man: supersonic flight, armor nearly invulnerable to any conventional weapon, able to lift 70-100 tons. Genius level IQ.

Wizard: Genius level IQ. Capable of teleporting to places, arriving far faster than Iron Man can fly there. Able to bend relity, displacing mountains, turn Iron Man's suit into an Armani that is incapable of stopping any weapon, etc.

Thor: actual god, effectively infinite strength, invulnerable to conventional weapons, flight, control of lightning and weather.

Cleric. Able to control lightning and weather, walk on the wind, hurt Thor with a +1 weapon, raise the dead(which Thor cannot do), etc.

Hulk: invulnerable to damage, infinite strength, hulk smash, genius level IQ.

Hulk does not have a genius level IQ. Banner does and he's not in control more of the time than he is in control. He's also not invulnerable, just really hard to hurt. An artifact or even a +3 weapon, which high level PCs have should be sufficient to hurt him. The Hulk is probably on par with a Tarrasque, which high level groups defeat.

Ant-Man: shrinks to subatomic size or goes giant sized big enough to lift several tons

And would likely get his butt wiped by a high level barbarian in a fight. He's a giant. PCs beat giants all the time.

I'll agree with PCs being superheroes when I see a build that is effectively invulnerable to all mundane weapons and can pick up an elephant or 10 in each hand.

Wish can make those things happen. Edit: Armor of Invulnerability and probably a few other things can make one invulnerable to mundane weapons.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Now hold on, if it wasn't you then who the hell did that last night at my house??

I mean, I'm sure you paid good money for it! "Now, Weiley31, you're going to beg me to walk on the d4-covered floor, aren't you?"

Not that I'm judging.