Pathfinder 1E Is PAIZO becoming the next Wizards?

[lin_fusan]

I see WotC and Paizo to be like 90s Microsoft and Apple. Or to borrow from Robert Cringely's Accidental Empires, they have kind of 80%/20% split over industry influence.

Paizo gets the "alternative" cred for being the other white meat compared to WotC, but wouldn't exist without WotC in the first place.

I personally don't think Paizo should try to break out further than this 80/20 split. They have a strong niche, they are experts in the 3.0 engine, and unless they hit upon some crazy, runaway hit (and WotC really drops the ball on the DnD license), Paizo will probably not expand more than where it is.

 

[CasvalRemDeikun]

To be fair, WotC bought TSR and produced a new edition of an old game originally made by another company(TSR). Pathfinder is a new edition of an old game albeit much closer to D&D 3.5 than D&D 3 was to AD&D 2.

At the end of the day though, WotC owns D&D from start to finish. They were producing a new edition to a game they are the sole owners of. In order for Paizo to do the same, they would have to either buy WotC (probably not going to happen) or OGL. Ownership of the base system is the necessary part, otherwise they are just building on something someone owns. Think of it like putting an antenna on top of someone else's building. Sure, you have a nice antenna that is high up, but without the tall building, your antenna isn't that great.

It is very common for publishers not to own the company that does the actual printing. Does WotC own the company that prints its books?

I did some research, and it does appear like Paizo is the company printing the books. The scenario I was looking at was if Paizo had someone like TOR print their books with the Pathfinder name on them. That is not the case.

 

[Scribble]

Not sure how poised they are to take over the "top dog" spot... but as someone else posted, maybe the early white wolf spot?

I wish them luck, as it's great to see more game companies thriving!

My question is what are they doing to grow their market? Right now they seem to be concentrating on "people who want to keep playing a game like 3e" as opposed to trying to get new people into the hobby.

Which is fine in its own right, but if the goal is to become bigger then Wizards, I think they need to think about the former.

I think Wizards made the same "mistake..." They concentrated mainly on getting D&D players back, and never really seemed to pay much attention to growing the market until recently.

If Paizo DID become as big as Wizards though that would be cool... Nothing breeds better product then competition.

 

[Scribble]

At the end of the day though, WotC owns D&D from start to finish. They were producing a new edition to a game they are the sole owners of. In order for Paizo to do the same, they would have to either buy WotC (probably not going to happen) or OGL. Ownership of the base system is the necessary part, otherwise they are just building on something someone owns. Think of it like putting an antenna on top of someone else's building. Sure, you have a nice antenna that is high up, but without the tall building, your antenna isn't that great.

Wizards bought the rights to the brand, not to ownership of creative credit for D&D. The credit they get is for 3e and 4e respectively, which are built upon an earlier product created by another company same as Paizo has done with Pathfinder.

Paizo in my eyes gets extra credit too because they built their own brand from scratch, and then managed to strategically leverage it into a high place in the "gamer" market- No easy feat.

On an off note I'm happy to see that Wizards is finally starting to really work on what the D&D Brand means in the public eye.

 

[BryonD]

To be fair, WotC bought TSR and produced a new edition of an old game originally made by another company(TSR). Pathfinder is a new edition of an old game albeit much closer to D&D 3.5 than D&D 3 was to AD&D 2.

I agree with you.

It is funny that just a couple weeks ago I was defending that PF is compatible with 3.5 from someone here expressing disgust that it was a completely new edition and thus they couldn't use their old stuff.
But it is also just an antenna on top with no value changes to take credit for. lol

 

[Nymrohd]

D&D 3E is not that much different from AD&D. People just don't consider the full Player's Option version of AD&D. A lot of the new things in 3E were created there.

 

[Rel]

When Paizo makes their own game system instead of using an outdated one from another company, maybe they can start approaching WotC's level. Of course, when that happens people will hate on them for the same reasons people hate on WotC ("such and such system has only been out for four decades, going to a new one is now is too soon!" or some other equally ridiculous fanboy bs).

Nothing against Paizo, but everything they have and are producing is something borrowed from someone else(using WotC's game system, Reaper's minis) besides the novels. And if the novels are something printed by a different company other than themselves, they haven't done anything but make themselves a little money and others a lot of money.

I just wanted to point this out as a great way to post if you don't want people to really listen to the points you're making but instead focus on the fact that you don't mind being rude when you make them.

 

[Aus_Snow]

I'd say WotC had just as much of a hand in that shift as Paizo did.

Nope. Without Paizo, no Pathfinder. Pretty simple, really.

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

borrowing

I think it's a little misguided to accuse any company in this field of borrowing ideas.

'Borrowing' is how things work in the creative field. Gygax and Arneson were the biggest innovators our hobby will ever see, and even they borrowed from wargame design, fantasy literature, and myth. Hasbro/WoTC owes everything to them -- either directly, via acquisition of TSR, or indirectly, via influence on the 3E design from Ars Magica and RuneQuest, both of whom 'borrowed' heavily from D&D. Everyone working in the field today got to where they are by standing on the shoulders of giants.

What really matters is execution. And it is here that Paizo distinguishes itself. They've managed to go from being just another OGL game company to being a brand that directly competes with WoTC for market share and shelf space in stores, while staying small enough to remain in touch with their customers (everyone in that company, up to and including the CEO, is a gamer). That's impressive.

Ken

Nothing against Paizo, but everything they have and are producing is something borrowed from someone else(using WotC's game system, Reaper's minis) besides the novels. And if the novels are something printed by a different company other than themselves, they haven't done anything but make themselves a little money and others a lot of money.

 

[DEFCON 1]

For some reason, it seems like it's only the fans who really care who's number 1, or who's number 2, or who's "the new WotC" or "the true competitor to White Wolf", etc. etc. It never sounds like the industry professionals even care about measuring themselves against each other like this... it's only the fans on message boards who feel the need to try and rank everybody.

It's as though they need justification to like what they like. As though it'd be somehow wrong to play Pathfinder if it wasn't for the fact that "they're the NEW WotC!"

Quite frankly, it doesn't matter who's doing what more successfully, or more old school, or catering more to the "true fans", or is the new this or the new that". So long as all the companies are fiscally viable and are still able to put out product... where they fall on any sort of scale doesn't matter.