Is Quench really all that?

[Pielorinho]

Last night, our group went up against a bunch of fire-cultists. Once the room was full of flaming skeletons and fire mephits, I (a ninth-level druid) dropped Da Bomb: Quench.

As an aside, this is the coolest AoE spell I've cast yet: it does no damage to allies, is totally ineffective against most enemies, and hurts like hell against a small subset of enemies. And its AoE is humongous -- 2 20' cubes/level, shapeable.

And no saving throw. That part I understand. But according to the spell description, there's no SR either.

Could this be right? I don't know of any other spell, much less a fourth-level spell, that directly affects an opponent and doesn't allow a saving throw. Because the spell has all sorts of different effects, I think they may have just made an error in the writeup.

Any ideas?

Daniel

PS: Here's the spell's description, from the SRD:

Quench

Transmutation
Level: Drd 4
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area or Target: One 20-ft. cube/level (S) or one fire-based magic item
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None or Will negates
(object)
Spell Resistance: No or Yes (object)

Quench is often used to put out forest fires and other conflagrations. It extinguishes all nonmagical fires in its area. The spell also dispels fire spells in the area, though the character must succeed at a dispel check of 1d20 +1 per caster level (maximum +15) against each spell to dispel it. The DC to dispel such spells is 11 + the caster level of the fire spell. Fire-based creatures within the area take 1d6 points of damage per caster level from the spell (maximum 15d6, no save allowed).

Alternatively, the character can target the spell on a single magic item that creates or controls flame, such as a wand of fireball or a flame tongue sword. The item loses all its fire-based magical abilities permanently unless it succeeds at a Will save. (Artifacts are immune to this effect.)

 

[kreynolds]

But according to the spell description, there's no SR either.

Could this be right?

IMO, its correct. I see the damage to fire-based creatures as a sorta counterspell, if you will.

 

[Golandrinel]

Agreed, looks right, although very powerful for a 4th level spell. Do some "sun" spells have an automatic affect on some types of undead?

 

[Dark Dragon]

Yup, it's ok. The spell is effective only a very small group of creature types (those made of fire, to keep it simple), it has a quite low damage cap (15d6) and can be used effectivly only on rare occasions...

Well, my druid will have that spell ready when attacking the fire cult in our campaign

 

[Celebrim]

I was in a 1st edition game where a wand of fire quenching changed the course of history. So if by, 'all that', you mean a powerful spell, then yes it is all that.

According to the write up it allows no saving throw, but in fairness it probably should have a reflex save for half damage. Afterall, non-fire creatures are allowed a save when you dump a fireball on them. What is this but an anti-fire ball?

 

[Dark Dragon]

Agreed, looks right, although very powerful for a 4th level spell. Do some "sun" spells have an automatic affect on some types of undead?

Aye, Sunburst and Sunbeam use caster level d6 against undead instead of 3d6. And they have the option to destroy certain undead (like vampires) and funghi....

 

[Pielorinho]

Agreed, looks right, although very powerful for a 4th level spell. Do some "sun" spells have an automatic affect on some types of undead?

Sunbeam and Sunburst both allow for SR. Control Water acts as a slow spell versus water-based creatures; I don't know whether this means it allows for a Will save and SR (per the Slow spell) or allows no save or SR (per Control Water's description).

Other than Control Water, I can't think of any spell that directly affects a creature that doesn't allow for SR. Even ninth-level spells like Imprison and Implosion allow for SR. Are there any other ones?

I'm not so concerned about its balance -- like many druid spells, it's effective only in a narrow range of encounters. I'm more worried that it breaks one of the rules of D&D magic: a spell that directly affects a target is subject to Spell Resistance.

Daniel

 

[Wippit Guud]

Mind you, not very many spells will outright destroy a dragon like Quench does to a red. Most powerful evil dragon is the easiest to kill.

 

[Pielorinho]

Oh, yeah! Wippit, that was my other question. Is any creature with the "fire" subtype considered a fire-based creature? Or does the creature's body need to consist substantially of fire? Is this clarified anywhere?

Ideally, they would've said, any creature with the fire subtype takes the listed damage -- but then, would fire giants really be killable with the quench spell? That seems a little goofy to me. Otherwise, it'd be nice if there were some clear way to figure out which creatures constitute "fire-based."

Daniel

 

[Wippit Guud]

Well, elemental plane of water doesn't have the same effect on fire subtype as it does on fire-created creatures, but it still affects them in some way, so I guess it's a DM's call...