Is Speak Language a useless skill?

[shadow]

There have been several threads discussing the idea of eliminating the common tongue. Many people (myself included) have stated that they have eliminated it in their homebrews. I have never liked the idea of a common language. It always seemed silly and contrived. However, linguistic issues aside, from a pure gaming point of view it makes speak language a useless skill.
This view has been often repeated by meta-gamers and power gamers. One of my friends (the king of powergamers) once even warned players not to take ranks in speak language because "it's a waste of skill points". If everyone in the whole world speaks the same language why should anyone take ranks in speak language?
Sure there are racial languages (elvish, dwarvish, etc.), but it seems like in every game that I've played in every elf or dwarf that the party encounters speaks common. In the rare occasion that it becomes necessary to talk in a racial language, the elf or dwarf in the party, by benefit of the automatic language, is already fluent in it.

So, is speak language really a useless skill. I suppose a lot of it depends on the campaign. But, in standard D&D settings, such as Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms, I can't think of any reason that anyone would take ranks in speak language other than for "flavor reasons".

 

[dream66_]

Well, for one thing when the 2 elfs start blathering on in elven in front of everyone and the drawf has to wonder what they what they are talking about speak language begins to look more attractive

 

[Will]

Speak language can be very handy when translating draconic texts or spying on goblins and such.

Unfortunately, I find it tends to fall apart easily with the use of Tongues. Particularly Permanented.

 

[der_kluge]

IMC, in the major parts of the world, there is a common tongue, and even the elves, dwarves, etc, have lost their root languages over time - they all speak common.

BUT, travel outside the major population areas, and NO ONE speaks common. Then, things like the ancient languages, Fey, and Draconic come in quite nicely.

I've also changed it so that 1 rank in Speak Languages doesn't work. You have to dump points into it like any other skill. Because, you could suck at a language just like any other skill. No more, "look, I went up a level and became perfectly fluent in ancient greek."

 

[Saeviomagy]

Speak language isn't worthless because of the existence of the common tongue.

Speak language is worthless because of the existence of comprehend languages and tongues, which both simulate infinite ranks in speak language.

Unless you KNOW that you'll be using a language a lot, don't bother getting it with one of your precious skill points - rely on a spell or other translating device.

 

[Crothian]

Just because there's a common tongue doesn't mean people will use it. There are many reasons to learn other languages even with a common tongue. If the badguys know none of the PCs can understand them they can plot and communicate freely in front of them.

 

[RangerWickett]

You make a good point. I, as a result of having a linguist in my game, have recently made a clear shift to make language important.

This is the list that's at the end of that player's character sheet. She speaks all of these languages. There's no such thing as 'Common.' And I make the players travel all over the world on their adventures, so languages are very important. Ancient texts are a great thing.

• Tennae. One of your native languages, the primary language of Tennas, your homeland.
• Seren. The ancient language spoken in the Seren Empire, the same area where Tennas is now.
• Hereth. Ancient language of Orcish tribes, still spoken in Nau-Hereth.
• Ragesian. The ancient language of the Ragesian Empire, which controlled the world three thousand years ago, closely related to Seren and Hereth. Still spoken in Sindaire.
• Dorisian. Seafarer’s language of Dorisia and Crescenta. Distantly related to Hereth and Gresian.
• Gresian. Language of the animist Gresian culture along the Stormchaser Coast.
• Kelaquois. Language of the Kequalak Empire and the tundra.
• Jenelesti. Ancient Elvish language, root of modern Elvish tongues.
• Shahalesti and Taranesti. Ancient tongues of the light and dark Elves. Taranesti is still spoken by dark Elves today, with slight changes.
• Innenlesti, Kohalesti, Tundanesti, Vaneljesti. Modern light Elf tongues.
• Cavalesh. Primary language of the southern continent, spoken in Caval, Seaquen, and Sempas. Most commonly used language of traders and sailors.
• Elstrician. Language of Elstrice, related to Cavalesh.
• Dasseni. Dead language, related to Cavalesh, formerly spoken in Nozama.
• Jipsin. Highly mutable language of the Gnomes. Tends to use lots of foreign words, depending on the area.
• Lyceian. Language of Nozama. Primary scholar’s language.
• Goblin. A mish-mash of related languages used by Goblins.
• Xaopin. Dead language formerly spoken in Sempas and at Yen-Ching.
• Aechan*. Language of the avian Aechan.
• Geidon*. Language of the Minotaurs.
• Wyrmish*. Language of dragons, hard to pronounce.
• Infernal* and Celestial*. Believed to be the languages of demons and angels, these languages are commonly learned by wizards who summon extraplanar creatures.
• Ignan*, Nereiden*, Peccish*, Sylphan*. Believed to be the languages of Fire, Water, Earth, and Air elementals, commonly learned by mages who study elemental magic.

 

[Mark]

So, is speak language really a useless skill. I suppose a lot of it depends on the campaign.

I agree with this mostly. I think it depends moreso on the DM.

 

[Crothian]

I agree with this mostly. I think it depends moreso on the DM.

That is a good point. A DM can make any skill useless. But I wouldn't blame the skill, I'd blame the DM. It's like complaining that wizards stink because my DM plays in a magic dead zone.

 

[Saeviomagy]

You make a good point. I, as a result of having a linguist in my game, have recently made a clear shift to make language important.

This is the list that's at the end of that player's character sheet. She speaks all of these languages. There's no such thing as 'Common.' And I make the players travel all over the world on their adventures, so languages are very important. Ancient texts are a great thing.

Unfortunately doing this just makes comprehend languages and tongues MORE important, and picking up languages through spending skill points more... pointless. More languages = less worth to each language.