Is Speak Language a useless skill?

[Shallown]

My players have invested in langauges many times over the course of the game. I tend to drag them all over the small world they live in. Comoon is Common not ubiqious (Sp?). When in the dwarven nation only a few merchants and clan leaders speak common everyone else spoke dwarven. They only spoke common when addressed in common. Most the players took dwarvish when they knew they would be heading that way. they also all took draconic to have a secret langauge amongst themselves figuring it would be a useful langauge for that not having run into a lot of draconic speakers. They have also taken them for roleplaying reasons, the scout rogue/fighter took several humanoid langauges because he figgered as a scout he would need to knwo what they were saying when he spied on them. heck the Bard has taken langauges just so he could Curse the opponents fluently.

Later

 

[Saeviomagy]

2nd edition made it a point to say that there's no such thing as a magic item store, as they're just too precious and rare.

Which was complete garbage because adventurers routinely had vast stockpiles of magic items they didn't want, but that might be useful to someone else. Magic items that they'd want to sell. But, of course, despite the existence of other powerful NPC's in the game, noone except the players would ever want to sell anything.

Total rubbish.

But that's not entirely kosher to this conversation, outside of my saying that items which comprehend languages and use tongues can't usually be picked up like they were just another expense.

Unfortunately this is another example of "why? Because I said so!". In a society where language barriers are a real problem, and merchants have lots of money, translation devices are gonna be one of the first things that they'll want.

 

[Saeviomagy]

One other point - if the DM decides "language will be important in my game", and hangs plot points on it, then it's entirely possible for the PC's to go
"bugger getting languages", and make a concerted effort not to go out and know languages other than the basics.

Which basically ends that plot right there and then.

So the DM will tend to stick with languages that the PC's know.

IOW if the PC's go and spend 2 skill points (which is a pretty major investment for most classes) to learn an unusual language, then there's a good chance that if they HADN'T have spent the points, the end result would have been precisely the same - the DM would have either not used the language, or would have made the services of a translator available.

An additional problem I have is that in D&D it's not possible to learn stuff without going up an entire level - so a character who finds himself starting an adventure in a foreign country will be totally unable to function until he levels up, when the smart thing to do would be to find someone who can teach the language, settle down and learn it so you can equip yourself and learn something about the area before going out into the wilderness.

 

[Zaruthustran]

-Neither spell conveys idiomatic expression or hidden meaning, only the literal meaning. A student of the language, however, WILL have understanding of this. (Students of multiple languages will be able to tell you the dangers of idiomatic expression. ) a clever DM might even make an in-game puzzle that depends on true understanding of the language, rather than translations.

Hmm. It might be fun for such a DM to take a written puzzle or clue, run it back and forth through a translator program, and then give the mangled result up when the party uses Tongues, Comprehend Languages, or Decipher Script.

Like so (the above translated from english to spanish, then the result translated from spanish to english):

Hmm. Can be that it is diversion so that such DM takes a puzzle or a written track, works it forwards and backwards with a program of the translator, and later it gives to the result mangled for above when the party uses the tongue-pieces, it includes/understands languages, or it deciphered the writing.

-zed

 

[Steverooo]

Well, my Ranger always takes the languages of his Favored Enemies, for scouting & spying reasons. Comprehend Languages or Tongues might work, IF you have them up when you run into something (outside of an Antimagic Zone), but casting results in a Listen check for your enemies (DC:0, at worst, -1/10' away that you are), and even whispering a command word is only DC:15. Speaking your prey's language(s) does away with all of that, and allows the Favored Enemy bonus to Listen to actually be useful.

Zarathustran's suggestion to take Gnomish as an Intra-party communication language is also a valuable idea.

In one adventure, before going into an unknown area, my Elven Ranger went to the library to research any problems or dangers that we might face, there. I pointed out that my character read Gnomish, and (since 3e Gnomes were specified as writing the best books on nature) the GM rewarded me by allowing him to find out that the area we were heading to was often bothered by lions, and gave us several tips for avoiding problems with them. This was quite a boon, as we were all first level, and a lion would - at best - set us afoot in the wilds.

If you want to make languages more useful (especially to Bards), grant a +2 Circumstance Bonus to Reaction Checks for NPC dealings with PCs who speak their Mother-Tongue to them. Thus, a charismatic Bard (+4) who speaks the local language (+2), has some Diplomacy (+5), and five Ranks, each, of Bluff and Sense Motive (+4) can automatically shift reactions by one and a half categories, without even rolling!

Also, on Decipher Script, you don't neccessarily get all the information. You puzzle out a bit, and recognize the language, but may not understand the whole thing. So reading the language is still important.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Well, my Ranger always takes the languages of his Favored Enemies, for scouting & spying reasons. Comprehend Languages or Tongues might work, IF you have them up when you run into something (outside of an Antimagic Zone), but casting results in a Listen check for your enemies (DC:0, at worst, -1/10' away that you are), and even whispering a command word is only DC:15. Speaking your prey's language(s) does away with all of that, and allows the Favored Enemy bonus to Listen to actually be useful.

Also note that comprehend languages requires that you touch your target.

Primarily you use it to read books, not communicate.