Is Speak Language a useless skill?

[Trickstergod]

Two of the three setting's I play in don't have a common tongue, per se.

Ravenloft has no common tongue. Characters get one based off the domain they're from, and then their Intelligence bonus and skill points.

Now, there are languages which are rather common and widespread - Vaasi, Mordentish, Darkonese. But unless a PC comes from a place where that's the national language, then they're not guaranteed to speak any of those languages.

Then there's Midnight, where there is a sort of common tongue - the Trader's Tongue. However, outside of gnomes, no one else has it as a starting language, to my current recollection. It's the language that, if someone's bought another language, that will likely be the one, but it's not guaranteed, and points still need to be spent.

As for the Scarred Lands, there's only a limited form of common. Ghelspad has Ledean, and Termana has Termanan, and the two are understandable between each other, but beyond that, there's also regional languages in Ghelspad. Veshian, Calastian, and so on. Termana lacks the regional languages, which I found to be just one of the flaws in its continent book. In either case, I've altered the language rules slightly so that a common language isn't so common. Human PC's start off with Ledean and their regional language, other races their racial language and regional language (usually it will just be Ledean, anyway). But that's just the PC's. Many of the major NPC's will, by virtue of being movers and shakers, have Ledean (or Termanan) as well, but not all will, and trying to go about Gathering Information in any specific city could run the PC's into the problem of not being able to speak with most people, as the native likely only speak the native language.

Other than that...Speak Language does allow the characters to speak over most peoples heads, in most places. So it serves that point.

As for magic items that comprehend languages and allow the use of tongues, I don't turn magic acquisition into a similar process as going into Wal-Mart for toilet paper.

At least 2nd edition had that right.

 

[johnsemlak]

.

As for magic items that comprehend languages and allow the use of tongues, I don't turn magic acquisition into a similar process as going into Wal-Mart for toilet paper.

At least 2nd edition had that right.

How did 2e do that?

 

[Chronosome]

It's all about the campaign, really. 'Twasn't "useless" in mine.

If you're just playing a combat-oriented deal, the skill's probably not going to do much for you. In the dungeon, strange creatures you've encountered who don't speak Common can be handled with those translation spells everyone above me has mentioned. But remember, the low-level translator (comprehend languages) requires you to touch whatever it is you're trying to comprehend--not ideal if you're trying to overhear secret plans or understand a flaming elemental.

If you're looking for a more "crunch-oriented" use for languages, look no further than the summon monster spells. If you can't speak the tongue of a creature you've summoned, all the spell allows you to do is direct it to attack. If you DO speak its language (usually celestial, infernal, or abyssal) you can get a lot more mileage out of your pokemon of choice--you can command them to do non-combat things like "go check that trappy place" or "keep bad guy at bay" or "do a backflip".

Hope that helps ya.

 

[Li Shenron]

In my experience, knowing an extra languages have proved to be occasionally useful in these two situations:

- eavesdropping on monsters
- innuendo between party members

An example of the first is when the party is exploring a dungeon carefully, or sneaking into a local or simply trying to go unnoticed in a tavern or in a crowd; creatures with a native language don't use common when talking to themselves, so to know their language was necessary to listen to what they were saying. It could help with the plot or with tactics before an ambush.

The second was useful for two or more members of the party to communicate with each other in a language not understood by the enemies.

Comprehend Languages and Tongue spoil the thing a lot, but still you have to keep the spells ready or make a scroll. There are still situations when to know the language is more handy than to cast the spell (like if you are sneaking and should have a silenced comprehend languages ready).

 

[ciaran00]

There is no Common in my game; they're all racial. Also, read/write language is a separate skill; speak + read/write is CROSS-CLASS for most classes in my game making it hefty. The requirement for knowing different languages is substantial, so with all such changes, these one (two) skills get to be sought after, too.

P.S. It's silly how D&D simplifies literacy...

ciaran

 

[JasonT]

So, is speak language really a useless skill. I suppose a lot of it depends on the campaign. But, in standard D&D settings, such as Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms, I can't think of any reason that anyone would take ranks in speak language other than for "flavor reasons".

I can think of one totally in-game reason for spending skill points on languages... the Summon Monster spell. (Of course, they made it all wimpy in 3.5 Edition... grumble gripe... complain complain ) Anyway, what I mean is, according to the spell, you can't direct summoned monsters to do anything other than just "attack the nearest obvious foe" unless you speak their language. So that is a reason for magic-users to learn the various Planar languages if nothing else.

Aside from that, I think it definitely depends on the campaign and the power level in the campaign. I love the idea of low-level campaigns set in worlds where one town/country doesn't speak the same language as the next (much like the real world in pre-modern times), but in the standard D&D setting it doesn't make much difference except for translating Draconic runes and stuff like that.

Our DM often has attacking monsters (or soon-to-be-attacking monsters) say interesting & important things to eachother (or us) in their native tongues which we may or may not be able to translate. Stuff like "Hey Grothmar! The foolish humans think they're hidden! Let's pretend we don't see them until we're ready to attack!" It can be a nice touch.

Jason

 

[s/LaSH]

Well, in my campaign there was this ancient empire, see, which conquered nearly the whole world, see, and after it collapsed about 800 years ago everyone kept speaking the same language.

Except that this empire was Rome, the language was Latin, and by the time you've crossed the Mediterranean everyone speaks Arabic instead. I reckon it added versimilitude to places which we know should be different.

By a similar token, Common for some people might be English - but then they walk into Cockney parts of London and realise that something's gone horribly wrong. (Now I've remembered USAmerican TV shows actually subtitling English people. Allow me a brief shudder.)

I guess it depends on campaign scope and certain other control knobs.

The Stargate SG-1 RPG has a slightly different take on languages, which is rather complicated and encourages someone to take huge piles of skill points in the Languages skill (of which there is only one, but points are then subdivided into other languages again) or Xenolinguistics. Possibly worth checking out for some of the 'implied experience' concepts. Have you ever learned French? If you answer non, you'll see that things aren't always as clear as they might seem...

 

[Numion]

P.S. It's silly how D&D simplifies literacy...

P.S. It's not the only thing D&D simplifies...

 

[Li Shenron]

P.S. It's silly how D&D simplifies literacy...

I haven't tried any homebrew system yet about speaking languages, but I have seen many proposals on these forums. My opinion is that to complicate the topic to make it more realistic is mostly unneeded. Almost every proposals that I have read was far too complicated to be funny, and I wonder how much it was use in practice. If I had to complicate it anyway, I wouldn't go farther than making speak language a skill as every other (with ranks in separate languages), but I still think that making checks every time you use it should be avoided.

 

[Trickstergod]

How did 2e do that?

2nd edition made it a point to say that there's no such thing as a magic item store, as they're just too precious and rare.

But that's not entirely kosher to this conversation, outside of my saying that items which comprehend languages and use tongues can't usually be picked up like they were just another expense.