Is Star Wars d20 revised worth it?

[Psion]

If you had read my -entire- post you would have seen why I think it's not worth it.

I read your statement, it just doesn't add up. But it is oh so easy to assume that your anyone who doesn't buy into your theory didn't understand you rather than analyze their post to see if they had a point.

Let me reiterate. You lose the MEA on your next action. In combat it is not worth losing the MEA for measley +1/+2/+3 to defense.

Questionable. What is "worth it?"

Your feats are more useful, no doubt about that. But they also cost you feats. 4 of them if you take the whole chain. Is deflecting blasters what being a jedi is all about? So sure, the jedi's ability is costing you a move action, but yours is costing me a feat.

Second, once you get the deflect attack ability at third level, it doesn't cost you anything extra to deflect and redirect. Further, it doesn't cost you anything extra to deflect while doing a total defense. So it is, on the average, not as costly as a MEA when you are using it like it was used in the movies.

Finally, what your feats really do is up the odds that the jedi gets missed. Which is exactly what the jedi class skills does. The major difference is that I am not engaging in the same sort of tedious roll-offs that some games engender. If you really feel it is that important to have a roll against any incoming attack to satisfy your visceral need, have a blast. I personally find excess rolling with a similar effect unwarranted and would rather avoid it.

If you pump up your dex your Reflex Saves and Defense go up by +1 up to +4 depending on how you roll for 10 rounds and you still get all your actions. You lose some vitality and it takes 1 standard action to activate.

Once again: so? You can do this AND use deflect.

 

[Doctor Doom]

...

Corinth:
I assumed the revised rules worked like standard D20 in that Total (full) Defense was a full round action. I was wrong.

Coupling Deflect Blaster to Total Defense means the character has to decide to use Total Defense (and lose a standard action) in order to keep the MEA next round. It is better than nothing but still limits the character's options in combat in my mind.

If they want to use the Standard Action for something else, but still use Deflect Blaster, they have to lose the MEA.

Also, the character can decide to use the Deflect Blaster ability anytime in combat. If the group get's ambushed, or a melee fight turns into a ranged fight or new attacker's enter and target the Jedi, and they want to use the Deflect Blaster ability they have to lose the MEA next round.

Taking equivalent (same feat trees, abilities) 10th Level Jedi the only difference between them is gonna be +2 Defense while doing total Defense, or a +2 Defense for one, although looses a MEA next round if one of them decides to use Deflect Blaster.

Psion:
You asked "why is it not worth it" when I specifically said it was because of losing the MEA. That led me to believe you just skimmed over my post. I'm sorry if that was a wrong assumption.

I did not turn Deflect Blaster into a feat (at which point do I start assuming you aren't skimming?). All Jedi still get the ability I just reworded the mechanics. I changed the powerups of it to Feats so that Jedi could specialize and not all Jedi would be clones of each other. There are three Feat powerups for it and not all of them need to be taken.

If the opposed rolling is bothering you, well, that's just difference in our opinions. I think it should be an opposed check of some sort and not just rolled into Defense. It seems more theatrical to me and let's the character 'use' the ability instead of 'activating' it.

Since I assumed the Total Defense was a full round action and it wasn't, I'm not sure about the mechanics for the flat footed, immobile, aware of attack mechanics.

I specifically tried to design them to allow for all Jedi to be able to Deflect some blasters but they are limited to half Jedi class level. At level 10 that's only 5 and I bet a Soldier 10 armed with a repeating blaster can get well over that (or Jango Fett).

The Improved Deflect Blaster allows for scenes like in RotJ where Luke is bound by Boba Fett's rope and still Deflect's blaster shots. It also allows for quick draw maneuvers like Obi-Wans.

I think actively using the ability is much more cinematic than just 'turning it on'. It also allows the Jedi to not rely on Total Defense or lose a MEA and thus keep all his combat options open while still using the ability. It is limited in that they have to spend feats to get it poweredup, a Jedi can't deflect unlimited number of shots, and they have to make a reflex save to deflect the shot. I don't think it's anymore powerful, and probably even a bit weaker, than the standard ability. It certainly seems 'cooler' to me though.

That's why I redid the ability.

You all think the standard ability is cool, great, use it, whatever. I'm not playing in your game. I don't think it is. For those people who want something else, this is what I've come up with. Change it, disregard it, whatever.

And after rereading my post it does sound like I was preaching the 'truth' to the unwashed masses that wasn't really my intent. I honestly believe the ability to be lame and worthless. You all seem to honestly believe it be cool and work well. That's cool. whatever works.

 

[Davelozzi]

Problem 2, this is minor but in the movies the characters frequently move and get multiple attacks. Yet the full attack 2 meter step rules are still in the game. I think they should of come up with a new rule that allowed more movement and full attacks, but maybe with a penalty like -1 to hit for all attacks for every 2 meters moved past the 1st.

Really? When I saw it it was hard to tell if they were getting multiple attacks because the movie wasn't divided into combat rounds.

***just being a jackass, no harm intended***

 

[Psion]

You asked "why is it not worth it" when I specifically said it was because of losing the MEA.

I caught that, I was just questioning your criteria.

I did not turn Deflect Blaster into a feat (at which point do I start assuming you aren't skimming?).

Mea culpa. I saw the word feats in the mix and assumed that they were all feats.

I honestly believe the ability to be lame and worthless. You all seem to honestly believe it be cool and work well. That's cool. whatever works.

Fair enough. I just judge it against other feats like Knight Defense that grants a +2 bonus; individually, its not all that powerful. But dodge bonuses are always more powerful than they seem because they can stack.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I don't think defelct balsters is very good. Yeah dodge bonuses stack. But it is an extremely rare occasion that I'd give up a move action for a really little boost in defense.

 

[Ranger REG]

[ message deleted by poster. ]

 

[teitan]

Force Strike

I believe that over the Wizards Star Wars board JD did confirm that Force Push is now a part of Force Strike and that knockdown was removed in general from the whole game. I don't know as I don't have the OCR just the RCR (which is just plain awesome). As a way to simulate the knockback move the counter back a square for every 2 or 3 points of damage recieved as a house rule, it isn't that hard. The point of contention is that ANakin uses the "push" against Geonosians (again, just fricking awesome aliens) and yet using forcestrike against a living being gets a DSP. Obi and the other Jedi don't use push against living beings, just Annie. Hmmm. Annie has gone Dark Side. Der. Yoda says in Ep. I "clouded this boy's future is" and in AOTC he says "the Dark Side clouds everything". Hrmmmm. MAyhaps the reason they don't realize Annie is dark side is because the Darkside clouds everything. Hmmm. He isn't going to exactly let them know he wiped out the Tusken tribe or that he used his force to attack living beings is he?

Jason

 

[Margaiaman]

Deflect Blasters

Well, this is the way I see it. I'd rather have the chance to deflect any shot coming at me. (IE reflex save vs attack). Than have some attacks hit outright. That is the biggest difference between the systems. Some people like a little +1 dodge bonus at a price, others would rather be able to deflect the things that get past their Defense score.

That's how I view it anyway.

I'd take a reflex save over a +1 dodge bonus any day.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

If force push is a darkside point when used against living creatures why do the jedi even teach it as a skill. Do they really expect to fight that many droids? I would totally ignore that rule especially considering how it is used in the books semi frequently vs living foes by the good guys without any darkside seeming effects. And why the heck is draining power a dark side skill? I'm sure there is some book reference, but oh yeah feel the evil as I drain you batteries Bwahahahahah!

 

[teitan]

If force push is a darkside point when used against living creatures why do the jedi even teach it as a skill. Do they really expect to fight that many droids? I would totally ignore that rule especially considering how it is used in the books semi frequently vs living foes by the good guys without any darkside seeming effects. And why the heck is draining power a dark side skill? I'm sure there is some book reference, but oh yeah feel the evil as I drain you batteries Bwahahahahah!

From what I have percieved in the movies and in some of the books set in that era, the Trade Federation seems to be a huge problem in their arrogance so force strike may have been taught to Jedi because they knew that they would be facing a lot of the Trade Federation droidekas. Remember Capt Panaka with his "battle hardened trade Federation army"? I think the DSP is so that players don't go hog wildd with the skill and start hurling around everyone they meet. 3D4 is a lot of damage to take and basically render weapons at lower levels inert.

I understand what you are sayong on the Energy Drain skill. I also see where they are coming from in the rulebook though as it could be used to render life support systems inert etc. which can cause a loss of human life.