D&D 5E Is Tasha's Broken?

[Bill Zebub]

With the caveat that this wouldn't really be D&D, and I never expect it to happen...

I'd love an RPG where you start with pretty random stats, although balanced. (That is, one player isn't going to get a bunch of really high numbers, and somebody else isn't going to get a bunch of really low numbers.). Those are your natural gifts.

Then you pick your path: you can learn magic, commit to religion, learn martial combat, or get sneaky. Depending on your natural gifts, you go about that in different ways. So the next part of chargen is the whole "life path" thing, which combines some choices with some rolling. So if you end up high int, low strength, medium dex but you want to be a warrior, you pick up skills ("feats", roughly) that let you play to your strengths and minimize your weaknesses. You'll probably use a lighter weapon and armor...or no armor...and learn how to fight by tricking your enemy.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Yeah, that's fair. I think subraces were a mistake. I think a nice middle point compromise position could have been making the subrace's worth of the race mechanics floating. (So for example all elves get +2 to dex and basic elven things like the trance etc, then they have floating +1 and get to choose one additional trait from a list of elfy traits.)

I like the part about choosing from a list of traits. That way they don't have to be as well balanced for the various classes. Elves, for example, could choose between Elven Accuracy and Fey Teleportation. Or something like that.

(ASIs not so much. )

 

[Vaalingrade]

I think the flexibility is pretty questionable. Yes, in theory you can arrange your ability scores in more ways, but in practice it just means that you're expected to get the same score in the main stat than everyone else, so the end result is characters who are mechanically more homogenised than before.

I don't think the original method was great either, but I really wish we could have a system that would actually tolerate or even encourage more variable ability arrangements. "You can now be diverse by being identical to everyone else" seems like a rather hollow outcome to me.

This is putting WAY too much importance on ability scores as a means of differentiating characters rather than the combination of everything else: racial traits, class features, background, item loadout, etc.

 

[Bill Zebub]

This is putting WAY too much importance on ability scores as a means of differentiating characters rather than the combination of everything else: racial traits, class features, background, item loadout, etc.

Yeah I get that some people really liked racial ASIs, but the "without ASIs they are all just humans with funny hats" is just so much sky-is-falling hyperbole.

I suppose the fear that racial abilities are going to get the axe next is valid. I personally don't think that's ever going to happen, but if that's the worry then, yeah.

 

[Minigiant]

I think the flexibility is pretty questionable. Yes, in theory you can arrange your ability scores in more ways, but in practice it just means that you're expected to get the same score in the main stat than everyone else, so the end result is characters who are mechanically more homogenised than before.

I don't think the original method was great either, but I really wish we could have a system that would actually tolerate or even encourage more variable ability arrangements. "You can now be diverse by being identical to everyone else" seems like a rather hollow outcome to me.

That's why I keep saying variants are best.

Betting to have "Charisma attack to Demoralize" than just have everyone get +2 to Strength.

But oh no. Minigiant is a crazy man. He want more optional rules to make every ability score better. Burn him!

 

[Crimson Longinus]

This is putting WAY too much importance on ability scores as a means of differentiating characters rather than the combination of everything else: racial traits, class features, background, item loadout, etc.

But if ability scores do not differentiate characters, why are we having them? Why we have elaborate systems for buying and boosting numbers that do not mean anything?

 

[Minigiant]

There's no rule against short players in the NBA, either. Right?

(I hear Spud Webb plays an orc wizard in a long-running campaign.)

NBA players are 0.1% tallest men in the US. In order to be an average sized man (I little shorter than me) and make it in the NBA you skill have to be insanely good.

6'1" is short there. Six one!

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Yeah I get that some people really liked racial ASIs, but the "without ASIs they are all just humans with funny hats" is just so much sky-is-falling hyperbole.

I suppose the fear that racial abilities are going to get the axe next is valid. I personally don't think that's ever going to happen, but if that's the worry then, yeah.

I mean different movement speeds are already gone on all the newer races. And people have already demanded getting rid of the heavy weapon limitation on the small races. Hell, many races no longer even have defined size, nor defined height, weight or lifespan. I already felt the PHB rules for races were too barebones, and now most of that is already gone on newer entries. Sure, I can homebrew, and I have, but I feel the direction the official rules are heading might be a mistake. At some point people could start to feel dissatisfied that their hulking half-orc that looks massive in the art is no stronger than a halfling or that their Legolas wannabe is no more dextrous than a dwarf.

 

[Neonchameleon]

But if ability scores do not differentiate characters, why are we having them? Why we have elaborate systems for buying and boosting numbers that do not mean anything?

Why indeed?

The primary impact of ability scores is to differentiate what characters are good at, which is more about skill than anything else.

 

[Minigiant]

But if ability scores do not differentiate characters, why are we having them? Why we have elaborate systems for buying and boosting numbers that do not mean anything?

The problem isn't ability scores.

The problem are:

1. We want ability score to be between 3-18 before mods
2. We want racial ability score modifiers to be small
3. We want total ability score modifiers of PCs to be small
4. We want ability score modifier formulas to be simple
5. We want ability scores to be thoughtful of class magic items like belts of storm giant

Remove any of them and the system gets a lot better.

Are we ready to give Halflings +8 Dexterity?