D&D (2024) Is the 2024 rules update a new edition? Argue about it here (not everywhere else)!

[Blue]

So if WotC releases a new SRD for the 2024 version with the rule changes then 1DD and 5e are the same too? I expect that for the core rules, e.g. the different conditions etc. The classes always were meant to exist in parallel. So 1DD then is the same edition as 5e according to your own definition.

I've been talking to several people in this discussion, so I don't assume that you've read everything I've written, but I have addressed this.

One of the points is that there are multiple criteria needed to be the same edition. One that I was focusing on, mostly because it looked like they were not going to meet it so it rendered discussion of the others moot, is the there are fully updated rules that contradict each other and the DM needs to say "we're playing with these rules, not those rules".

So nothing I am saying is "this is the only criteria to make it the same edition", it's "this is one criteria it is likely to fail that will make it a different edition".

There are SRDs out for multiple editions, so coming out with a new SRD doesn't inherently replace. And even if it does, that doesn't mean it errata's other books.

I have been talking about the published books. To expand out what I've said in several posts: if my 2014!PHB is completely up-to-date (e.g. has all errata published for it) has different rules (as in rules, not classes, spell descriptions, etc.) than a 2024!PHB that is completely up-to-date, such that the someone needs to pick one or the other as authoritative, then they are different editions.

 

[mamba]

I have been talking about the published books. To expand out what I've said in several posts: if my 2014!PHB is completely up-to-date (e.g. has all errata published for it) has different rules (as in rules, not classes, spell descriptions, etc.) than a 2024!PHB that is completely up-to-date, such that the someone needs to pick one or the other as authoritative, then they are different editions

so you make a distinction between errata and SRD, because otherwise you would have to agree that they are the same edition, as the SRD is likely to contain all the errata you are looking for. Seems a tad arbitrary and self-serving, but it’s your definition

This seems to boil down to whose definition for edition rules out changes in newer books vs whose does not.

 

[Blue]

so you make a distinction between errata and SRD, because otherwise you would have to agree that they are the same edition, as the SRD is likely to contain all the errata you are looking for. Seems a tad arbitrary and self-serving, but it’s your definition

This seems to boil down to whose definition for edition rules out changes in newer books vs whose does not.

You know, you have a point. From my perspective, we've purchased books. These books still exist. If they aren't updated to the 2024 rules, that's a clear sign it's a different edition.

But I can see where you are coming from. If they have both a 2014 SRD and a 2024 SRD that would, under my definition, be two separate sets of rules and therefore a different edition. If they replace the SRD with the 2024, such that what comes out in 2024 is the 5e SRD, that would mean this criteria for edition was met.

Would you be willing to agree on that - two SRDs with different rules = two editions, one SRD (or two SRDs with the same rules) = one edition?

 

[Vaalingrade]

I'm pretty sure how the CC works, they can't replace the 2014 SRD at all.

 

[mamba]

Would you be willing to agree on that - two SRDs with different rules = two editions, one SRD (or two SRDs with the same rules) = one edition?

no, because if there are no different rules then there will be no new SRD. The SRD is a collection of rules, plus examples, not an alternative to the PHB. E.g. new subclasses would not result in a new SRD, the rules need to change for that.

I am not sure why you do not want the new SRD to be the functional equivalent of the errata you are looking for however - apart from you insisting that these are two separate versions.

If rule changes via errata make it one edition, then rule changes via newer SRD do too.
If you had said a rule change makes it a new edition, then that is one way to go, but saying that it is a new edition depending on how the rule change is being made available is not something I agree with.

 

[HammerMan]

I thought bard was a change too far

Warlock was like “hold my beer”

We now have whole new classes. That replace old ones. Whole feats rewritten Conditions changed. If you bring a half elf fey lock to the 2024 table it is ALMOsT as big a difference as that Dwarf Bard… but this one not only needs to be changed but changes the whole concept of how it plays at the table

 

[Blue]

no, because if there are no different rules then there will be no new SRD. The SRD is a collection of rules, plus examples, not an alternative to the PHB. E.g. new subclasses would not result in a new SRD, the rules need to change for that.

I am not sure why you do not want the new SRD to be the functional equivalent of the errata you are looking for however - apart from you insisting that these are two separate versions.

If rule changes via errata make it one edition, then rule changes via newer SRD do too.
If you had said a rule change makes it a new edition, then that is one way to go, but saying that it is a new edition depending on how the rule change is being made available is not something I agree with.

No, not in the slightest, if the old SRDs still exist. For example, no one in a reasonable frame of mind will say that the 5e SRD is an update or errata for the 3.5 SRD.

And after your last post I was willing to entertain your point the SRD as the rules, so I am eminently confused by most of this response as it is irrelevant because it's trying to argue to a position I was willing to take a look at. I know it's odd in an internet discussion for your point to be taken and someone adjust their position.

So, you've convinced me that rules can come from an SRD. So, if there are two SRD with different rules, just like there are now with the 3.5 SRD and the 5e SRD, which are, wait for it, different editions, are you willing to agree that if there's ONE SRD after this for the game 2014-2024+ that the rules are the same, but if they keep two different SRDs with some differing rules (liek the 3.0 SRD and the 3.5 SRD), then the rules aren't the same and it's a different edition?

 

[mamba]

No, not in the slightest, if the old SRDs still exist. For example, no one in a reasonable frame of mind will say that the 5e SRD is an update or errata for the 3.5 SRD.

agreed, but as you always point out, that is just one of the conditions that define one edition

And after your last post I was willing to entertain your point the SRD as the rules, so I am eminently confused by most of this response as it is irrelevant because it's trying to argue to a position I was willing to take a look at. I know it's odd in an internet discussion for your point to be taken and someone adjust their position.

yeah, not buying that. You know full well that the next SRD will contain rule changes, that is the whole point for there being a new one, as I explained

So, you've convinced me that rules can come from an SRD. So, if there are two SRD with different rules, just like there are now with the 3.5 SRD and the 5e SRD, which are, wait for it, different editions, are you willing to agree that if there's ONE SRD after this for the game 2014-2024+ that the rules are the same, but if they keep two different SRDs with some differing rules (liek the 3.0 SRD and the 3.5 SRD), then the rules aren't the same and it's a different edition?

I am not sure I can even parse what you are writing here. No, not all editions for which there is an SRD are one edition. Obviously 3e, 4e and 5e are distinct editions. At no point did I say that the existence of an SRD is the only thing that matters when it comes to defining editions.

You are the one saying that as long as rule changes are in errata, it is the same edition. I expended that to say as long as rule changes are in an SRD, this is also one edition. This was not your only condition for what constitutes an edition, and neither is it for me.