Is the cleric's "Channeling" ability a mistake?
So, your main complaints about Channel seem to be that (1) while it may be useful at low levels, it is much less so at high levels, and (2) it requires feat support before it's good outside certain very narrow circumstances. Am I understanding correctly?
My response is that, even if these things are true, I totally fail to see how they are reasons to prefer Turn Undead specifically. Turn Undead has exactly the same problems, and worse versions of them at that. It has (1) because past low levels, virtually all undead worth using it on are functionally immune to it, and you seem to have admitted to (2) yourself (and, the "very narrow circumstances" are a LOT narrower for Turn Undead). Add to that the horrid, clunky table lookup TU relied on and Turn Undead has some serious problems.
A criticism of Channel is not necessarily an argument in favour of Turn Undead. Even if I accepted your premises, they'd be reasons to house-rule in some third system, not reasons to go back to TU.
My response is that, even if these things are true, I totally fail to see how they are reasons to prefer Turn Undead specifically. Turn Undead has exactly the same problems, and worse versions of them at that. It has (1) because past low levels, virtually all undead worth using it on are functionally immune to it, and you seem to have admitted to (2) yourself (and, the "very narrow circumstances" are a LOT narrower for Turn Undead). Add to that the horrid, clunky table lookup TU relied on and Turn Undead has some serious problems.
A criticism of Channel is not necessarily an argument in favour of Turn Undead. Even if I accepted your premises, they'd be reasons to house-rule in some third system, not reasons to go back to TU.
Twowolves
Explorer
If I recall correctly, they changed the channel energy from heal living + harm undead not because it was too powerful for positive energy channelers, but because undead clerics with undead minions were just too nasty healing the undead and AoE hurting PCs with an energy type that wasn't preventable like the elemental resists were.
Channel Energy (along with spontaneously casting heal spells) did a lot to end the "15 minute workday". If you like Turn Undead better, take the Turn Undead feat and go to town. Having a little extra AoE healing/day saves you on the money for Cure Light Wounds wands if nothing else. It wasn't meant for in-combat use straight out of the box, but can do nicely with the right feat investments (Selective Channel, Quick Channel etc). If you want to monkey with channeling, you can spend feats to do Alignment Channel, Channel Smite, etc, or take an alternative channel ability based on domain (from Ultimate Magic) or take an archetype that changes it.
In any case, Channel Energy >>> Turn Undead in nearly every way, and if you don't agree, well Turn Undead still exists so what's to complain about really?
Channel Energy (along with spontaneously casting heal spells) did a lot to end the "15 minute workday". If you like Turn Undead better, take the Turn Undead feat and go to town. Having a little extra AoE healing/day saves you on the money for Cure Light Wounds wands if nothing else. It wasn't meant for in-combat use straight out of the box, but can do nicely with the right feat investments (Selective Channel, Quick Channel etc). If you want to monkey with channeling, you can spend feats to do Alignment Channel, Channel Smite, etc, or take an alternative channel ability based on domain (from Ultimate Magic) or take an archetype that changes it.
In any case, Channel Energy >>> Turn Undead in nearly every way, and if you don't agree, well Turn Undead still exists so what's to complain about really?
Aaron L
Hero
I agree fully with all of the arguments extolling Pathfinder's Channeling.
But I also like it for another reason. As with most other elements of D&D and Pathfinder, I look to the original mythical or literary source material for how well it models events in the source stories. What is the source for Turning Undead? When people confronting vampires with a cross and forcing them to cower, flee, or turn away, hence "turn undead."
But I've never read a story where any other type of undead was forced to flee because of a cross or other holy symbol, unless the story as based on or clearly influenced by D&D. Crosses never repelled zombies, or mummies, or animated skeletons, or ghosts, or anything else. That is, until fantasy fiction started to become influenced by D&D, at which point Turning Undead started to become a stock power of Cleric type characters. But in the original source materials for D&D, it wasn't anywhere to be found, that I know of. If I'm wrong and there are lots of stories I haven't read where holy men force zombies to flee by presenting crosses, then I apologize.
But with Channeling there isn't anymore undead turning, forcing a vampire away against its will. What Pathfinder gives us is a Cleric presenting his or her holy symbol and causing damage to said vampire (or other intelligent undead), at which point the vampire, being intelligent, might well decide that fleeing is in it's best interest.
Or, even if not causing the vampire to flee, the damage from the channeling would at least causes it to flinch, shy away, and back off as if in pain, which models the behavior I expect from a vampire when presented with a cross much better than causing it to automatically flee in uncontrollable terror, at least in every vampire story I have ever read or seen which isn't based on Dungeons & Dragons.
Therefore I prefer the Channel Energy ability because I think it models the source material of the game much better than Turn Undead ever did. I've never seen a vampire movie where the vampire hunter or priest or exorcist or whatever brandished a cross and caused the vampire to uncontrollably flee in terror, but I've seen MANY where the hero presented a cross and the vampire flinched away from it, holding up its cape as if warding off an attack, acting as if the cross were causing it pain. Which I think the Channel Energy ability models nicely.
But I also like it for another reason. As with most other elements of D&D and Pathfinder, I look to the original mythical or literary source material for how well it models events in the source stories. What is the source for Turning Undead? When people confronting vampires with a cross and forcing them to cower, flee, or turn away, hence "turn undead."
But I've never read a story where any other type of undead was forced to flee because of a cross or other holy symbol, unless the story as based on or clearly influenced by D&D. Crosses never repelled zombies, or mummies, or animated skeletons, or ghosts, or anything else. That is, until fantasy fiction started to become influenced by D&D, at which point Turning Undead started to become a stock power of Cleric type characters. But in the original source materials for D&D, it wasn't anywhere to be found, that I know of. If I'm wrong and there are lots of stories I haven't read where holy men force zombies to flee by presenting crosses, then I apologize.
But with Channeling there isn't anymore undead turning, forcing a vampire away against its will. What Pathfinder gives us is a Cleric presenting his or her holy symbol and causing damage to said vampire (or other intelligent undead), at which point the vampire, being intelligent, might well decide that fleeing is in it's best interest.
Or, even if not causing the vampire to flee, the damage from the channeling would at least causes it to flinch, shy away, and back off as if in pain, which models the behavior I expect from a vampire when presented with a cross much better than causing it to automatically flee in uncontrollable terror, at least in every vampire story I have ever read or seen which isn't based on Dungeons & Dragons.
Therefore I prefer the Channel Energy ability because I think it models the source material of the game much better than Turn Undead ever did. I've never seen a vampire movie where the vampire hunter or priest or exorcist or whatever brandished a cross and caused the vampire to uncontrollably flee in terror, but I've seen MANY where the hero presented a cross and the vampire flinched away from it, holding up its cape as if warding off an attack, acting as if the cross were causing it pain. Which I think the Channel Energy ability models nicely.
Mark Chance
Boingy! Boingy!
gamerprinter
Mapper/Publisher
Rite Publishing's The Secrets of Divine Channeling by Jonathan McAnulty creates a new class the Divine Channeler that redefines the use of the channel power, plus provides traits that other clerics can use to widen their channel abilities.
Jonathan continues to support the Divine Channeling concept in articles published in Rite Publishing's Pathways magazine.
Jonathan continues to support the Divine Channeling concept in articles published in Rite Publishing's Pathways magazine.
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