Is the D&D fanbase too divided?

[LordofIllusions]

What, exactly, is your thesis here? Is it that WotC publishing supplements of D&D is making people impolite? Is it that MMORPGs make people impolite? Some sort of eldritch combination of the two stirring alchemical hatred into the Great Pan-Dimensional Society of Gamers?

The social air of the game needs to be improved. Dropping splatbook after splatbook full of classes and feats will not improve the game from its current MMORPG-mimicking standpoint; nor will publishing edition after edition.

WotC needs to focus on the social air of the game and when I speak of focusing on improving the social air I mean do some books that inspire player creativity. A book the reminds the players continously that arguing at a game and sitting off in their little corners while everyone is trying to have a good time only gets them eventually thrown out of the game, if they don't leave first.

Focus more on the fantasy storyline as opposed to fantasy mechanics. Without focusing more on DM empowerment, storytelling, and creativity(not tons of drop and play feats and classes) D&D remains the lifeless machine that it is.

~~~

 

[billd91]

Most of the new supplements being put out for the game are not improving the social air of the game only further corrupting it by promoting selfishness in players as opposed to diplomacy and social skills. In this age of MMORPGs and video games it appears that some have forgotten what it means to actually "roleplay" a character. Do I think video games are guilty solely? No. I think some video games can be a great inspiration to the game....some. Yet I am speaking of gamers that spend hours sitting in front of their computer screen having little to no interaction with another breathing human being, other than the IMs that pop up on their messenger or chat boxes, whom then try to dictate how the game should be.

WotC does not seem to care what happens with D&D as long as profits are pouring in. I could be wrong but this is how I feel. One posters stated he may be leaving the hobby. I know tons of other gamers that feel the same. WotCs possible answer to this will be of course to rush another edition of the game out. Hopefully they are wiser than that and start to help improve the social air of the game without all of the player coddling they usually endorse.

~~~

This is a big load of hooey. Gamers have always been divided, even long before role-playing with the first fight between gamers about whether Napoleonic or WWII miniatures were better. People simply get wacky about their semi-obsessive hobbies and trash anyone (or any company) that takes a different take on things than they do. That's always been the case and it will probably always be the case.

As far as people not role-playing these days, you probably shouldn't project your own experiences on the gaming community at large. I know plenty of people who keep up with all of the new sources and still role-play a great deal. The proliferation of sources has nothing to do with weak role-playing skills or practices. It never has had anything to do with it. WotC puts out product that they think people will like. If they're right, they'll sell well. If not, they won't. From where I'm sitting, based on the stuff I've been reading and the reviews, WotC is doing a very good job of giving gamers what they want... at least with respect to the books (the magazines/digital initiative may be something completely different). If so, more power too them.

 

[JohnSnow]

WotC does not seem to care what happens with D&D as long as profits are pouring in. I could be wrong but this is how I feel. One posters stated he may be leaving the hobby. I know tons of other gamers that feel the same. WotCs possible answer to this will be of course to rush another edition of the game out. Hopefully they are wiser than that and start to help improve the social air of the game without all of the player coddling they usually endorse.

~~~

I actually don't think that's true at all.

Hasbro doesn't care what happens with D&D as long as it's profitable. The good folks at Wizards of the Coast have said that they are pretty much left alone by corporate as long as the line makes money.

The folks at WotC itself are gamers, one and all. It is my personal opinion that they are doing their level best to make the game better, more interesting, and more fun for the great majority of their customers (us, that is). Where they're having a problem is that the roleplaying games are an EXTREMELY personal experience. One person's "awesome" is another's "crap."

It is my opinion that WotC has begun to realize this, and has basically decided to make their brand strategy "D&D with Optional Extras." I imagine that as the game moves forward, and moves into future editions, you'll see a lot more about not "playing with everything" but "Customizing Your Game." The early Complete Handbook series books and Unearthed Arcana tested the waters for it, and it worked. That led to the release of Dungeon Master's Guide II, Player's Handbook II, more books in the Complete series, Heroes Series and even some more variants in the other books (the Factotum in Dungeonscape). They floated still more variants in Weapons of Legacy, Tome of Magic, , Magic of Incarnum, Tome of Battle - The Book of Nine Swords, and still more variant rules in the races series and even the Eberron Campaign Setting. Now they're making Compendiums to consolidate all these things.

Clearly, D&D rules have become an encyclopedia of variants. I think that's by design. You aren't intended to play with ALL of it, but it's all there to cater to the mercurial and individualistic nature of gamers. I may want Warlocks & Binders in Campaign A, but Psionics in B, Incarnum in C, and Truenaming in D. And now, with all the variants, I've got it covered.

And yes, as a side benefit, each of these variants is another rulebook that makes money for WotC, and keeps the Dungeons & Dragons line profitable.

I imagine that Fourth Edition, when it eventually arrives, will be even more variant and expansion friendly than 3e is.

But hey, I could be wrong.

 

[LordofIllusions]

This is a big load of hooey. Gamers have always been divided, even long before role-playing with the first fight between gamers about whether Napoleonic or WWII miniatures were better. People simply get wacky about their semi-obsessive hobbies and trash anyone (or any company) that takes a different take on things than they do. That's always been the case and it will probably always be the case.

As far as people not role-playing these days, you probably shouldn't project your own experiences on the gaming community at large. I know plenty of people who keep up with all of the new sources and still role-play a great deal. The proliferation of sources has nothing to do with weak role-playing skills or practices. It never has had anything to do with it. WotC puts out product that they think people will like. If they're right, they'll sell well. If not, they won't. From where I'm sitting, based on the stuff I've been reading and the reviews, WotC is doing a very good job of giving gamers what they want... at least with respect to the books (the magazines/digital initiative may be something completely different). If so, more power too them.

This is a bunch of overly optimistic malarkey.

Gamers are at each others throats and arguing more than they ever have. Most GMs that run good games use the 3E mechanics but stil rely on other editions or other systems for flavor. Essentially the 3E products, other than the core and a few releases, are flavorless.

Denying reality doesn't make it go away.

~~~

 

[EricNoah]

This stuff comes in waves and we are at a peak (or a valley, depending on how you view it!) right now because of some of the major changes going on. Changes of the magnitude of Dungeon/Dragon ceasing publication, different companies losing their licenses, and the MMORPG paradigm shift are bound to stir things up. I don't think it can be blamed on a certain type of gaming material being published.

 

[Aus_Snow]

(. . .) One would think that with all of the new books and options available in the game that it would improve the game, but it has not.

For some, it clearly has. For others, clearly not. For others still, who knows.

Most of the new supplements being put out for the game are not improving the social air of the game only further corrupting it by promoting selfishness in players as opposed to diplomacy and social skills. In this age of MMORPGs and video games it appears that some have forgotten what it means to actually "roleplay" a character. Do I think video games are guilty solely? No. I think some video games can be a great inspiration to the game....some. Yet I am speaking of gamers that spend hours sitting in front of their computer screen having little to no interaction with another breathing human being, other than the IMs that pop up on their messenger or chat boxes, whom then try to dictate how the game should be.

Interestingly (I think ), I posted a thread + poll here on ENWorld, a while back, asking people [sincerely] whether they thought CRPGs and the like have had a positive or negative effect on tabletop RPGs, or alternatively, little or no effect. IIRC, the majority of respondents actually believed they have had. . . a positive effect! Yeah, that surprised me too. But there you go.

WotC does not seem to care what happens with D&D as long as profits are pouring in.

WotC is not an entity, and therefore. . . No, I'll stop that right there.


As far as I know, Wizards of the Coast's D&D section is staffed primarily with committed gamers, who are in fact individually and collectively quite keen to see D&D prosper in a healthy environment, and to enable or oversee significant parts of that process.

And hey, I'm hardly the biggest buyer of WotC product, nor a 'fanboi' in any way. But I still think you might have been a bit harsh and/or off the mark there.

I should, however, get some sleep at this very wrong end of the morning.

Peace, out.

 

[JohnSnow]

This is a bunch of overly optimistic malarkey.

Gamers are at each others throats and arguing more than they ever have. Most GMs that run good games use the 3E mechanics but stil rely on other editions or other systems for flavor. Essentially the 3E products, other than the core and a few releases, are flavorless.

Denying reality doesn't make it go away.

~~~

anecdote
an·ec·dote
-noun
1. A short account of an interesting or humorous incident.
2. Secret or hitherto undivulged particulars of history or biography.
pl. an·ec·dotes or an·ec·do·ta

anecdotal
an·ec·do·tal
–adjective
1. pertaining to, resembling, or containing anecdotes: an anecdotal history of jazz.
2. (of the treatment of subject matter in representational art) pertaining to the relationship of figures or to the arrangement of elements in a scene so as to emphasize the story content of a subject. Compare narrative (def. 6).
3. based on personal observation, case study reports, or random investigations rather than systematic scientific evaluation: anecdotal evidence.

 

[Umbran]

Gamers are at each others throats and arguing more than they ever have.

You've not given a strong argument for why they are arguing more than ever. One could easily posit that this has more to do with the growing prevalence of online communities where arguing is allowed than it has to do with the nature of the game content. I certainly haven't seen too many such arguments face to face - so maybe it is the nature of the discussion medium and how we think of it that is at fault....

That being said, people have experienced high dudgeon over trifles since the dawn of language. Changing the content of a few books will not change human nature. They'd just include those books into the list of things about which they argue

 

[Crothian]

Gamers are at each others throats and arguing more than they ever have. Most GMs that run good games use the 3E mechanics but stil rely on other editions or other systems for flavor. Essentially the 3E products, other than the core and a few releases, are flavorless.

Denying reality doesn't make it go away.

~~~

At each other's throats? People argue more now because of the net. Even the 1e boards have people arguing on them because they now have access to each other. This has nothing to do with the D&D game. Heck, other games that are more role playing friendly have nasty arguments on the net. The only common factor is the net, so let us place blame were it needs to be placed.

I run a good 3e game but it is not based on older flavor. It is based entirely on Eberron flavor. Trust me that is not old school way of gaming or anything. I think you're claim of most DM's is entirely made up.

 

[JustinA]

The social air of the game needs to be improved. Dropping splatbook after splatbook full of classes and feats will not improve the game from its current MMORPG-mimicking standpoint; nor will publishing edition after edition.

I play a lot of MMORPGs. I play a lot of D&D.

I am continually baffled whenever someone claims that D&D is mimicking MMORPGs.

I am particularly baffled whenever someone claims that "splatbooks full of classes and feats" are somehow a mimicking of MMORPGS... since MMORPGs have limited class selections and only a minimal ability to customize your character.

MMORPGs still owe a far greater debt to D&D than D&D does for whatever minor ideas it has received in return.

WotC needs to focus on the social air of the game and when I speak of focusing on improving the social air I mean do some books that inspire player creativity. A book the reminds the players continously that arguing at a game and sitting off in their little corners while everyone is trying to have a good time only gets them eventually thrown out of the game, if they don't leave first.

Okay. I'll bite: What, exactly, would such a supplement look like?

Because I know I'm not likely to put out the cash for a Miss Manners' Guide to D&D.

Focus more on the fantasy storyline as opposed to fantasy mechanics. Without focusing more on DM empowerment, storytelling, and creativity(not tons of drop and play feats and classes) D&D remains the lifeless machine that it is.

This posture always leaves me scratching my head, too. You know who gets the most use out of drop-and-play feats and clases?

The Dungeon Masters.

As a DM I end up creating over a dozen characters for every single session that we play. My players create a new character only once in about 50 sessions, and level up only once every 4 sessions or so.

All that material for creating interesting, unique, and mechanically interesting characters? Infinitely more useful to me as the DM than it is to my players.