Is the Greatsword the ultimate weapon?

[Calico_Jack73]

I have seen in seperate games a GS barbarian and a GS fighter really hand out the whoop butt in combat. I've not seen a straight sword & board fighter or a two-weapon fighter as effective.

Heh heh... you should have seen a Paladin that I built for 3.0. He had Shield Expert, Improved Shield Bash, Ambidexterity, and Two Weapon Fighting. I could attack with both my shield and my sword every round without losing my shield bonus to my armor class. The "Plus" bonus to shields also add to attack and damage bonuses (I believe that is right, that is how we played it) so for a measly +1 magical bonus the shield not only made my AC better but also made the attack more accurate and do more damage. After I got that +1 I then got a Shocking enchantment put on it. With a Fighter you could do it even better because of the extra feats. Nope, that Paladin whooped the crap out of all sorts of enemies with that combo. It got really fun when I smited evil with my shield (at the end of the campaign I had a better shield than sword so it kind of became my primary weapon).

I've found that having MORE ATTACKS is better than doing more damage with a single attack. If I'm using paired weapons at low levels I have double the chance of hitting (two dice rolls) than someone slinging around a greatsword (one dice roll). Yes, there is a -2 to hit penalty but probability still favors the person rolling two dice rather than one.

 

[glass]

The "Plus" bonus to shields also add to attack and damage bonuses (I believe that is right, that is how we played it) so for a measly +1 magical bonus the shield not only made my AC better but also made the attack more accurate and do more damage.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't. Otherwise, no-one would ever bother with weapons when you can enchant a shield for half the price! You can enchant a shield as a weapon, but that is separate from the enhancement bonus to its shield bonus.

Unfortunately, I can't find it in the SRD at the moment.


glass.

 

[Darklone]

Hmmm... interesting.

Wouldn't it be more optimal though to select scimitar instead of long-sword ? Instead of 1d8 you deal 1d6, but with Improved Critical your crit range goes from 17+ (long-sword) to 15+... damage dice rolled means less at higher levels because you damage output rests more on the bonuses than on the dice...

For example, 16th level fighter with Str 22, proper feats:

Scimitar +5: 1d6(3.5)+15 (+5 weapon, +6 Str, +4 Specialization), crit 15+
Long-Sword +5: 1d8(4.5)+15 (+5 weapon, +6 Str, +4 Specialization), crit 17+

In average, you only deal 1 point of damage more with Long Sword, and with Scimitar you crit 10% more.

I banned animated shields as well. Too cheap and noone yet told me how these thingies learn to fly. And they don't fit my style.

Trainz: Sword and Board fighters with expertise or TWF dudes with TWD feats and fighting defensively often prefer short threat range weapons with Power Critical. With those they don't lose out threat range against high AC monsters... And most PCs who started at low levels were glad about the more constant damage of the longsword when they picked Weapon Focus and Specialisation.

I've seen many ftr/rogs with greatswords. Ugly weapon. These guys didn't have to worry about spiked chains. Oops, they got tripped... so they stood up and sundered the chain. Combined with dwarven ftr/rogs in heavy armour and doubleweapons.... this gets ugly.

The only thing I don't like about the greatsword wielding dudes: Difficult to disarm?

 

[Calico_Jack73]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't. Otherwise, no-one would ever bother with weapons when you can enchant a shield for half the price! You can enchant a shield as a weapon, but that is separate from the enhancement bonus to its shield bonus.

Unfortunately, I can't find it in the SRD at the moment.


glass.

So what you are saying is that if you want your shield to give you a magical to-hit or damage bonus in addition to better AC you'd have to enchant it twice? That makes even less sense. Let me know if you find it in the SRD.

 

[Frostmarrow]

So what you are saying is that if you want your shield to give you a magical to-hit or damage bonus in addition to better AC you'd have to enchant it twice? That makes even less sense. Let me know if you find it in the SRD.

From the SRD/Equipment:

"Shield, Heavy, Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A heavy shield is so heavy that you can’t use your shield hand for anything else.
Wooden or Steel: Wooden and steel shields offer the same basic protection, though they respond differently to special attacks.
Shield Bash Attacks: You can bash an opponent with a heavy shield, using it as an off-hand weapon. See Table: Weapons for the damage dealt by a shield bash. Used this way, a heavy shield is a martial bludgeoning weapon. For the purpose of penalties on attack rolls, treat a heavy shield as a one-handed weapon. If you use your shield as a weapon, you lose its AC bonus until your next action (usually until the next round). An enhancement bonus on a shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but the shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right."

Emphasis mine.

 

[shilsen]

So what you are saying is that if you want your shield to give you a magical to-hit or damage bonus in addition to better AC you'd have to enchant it twice? That makes even less sense. Let me know if you find it in the SRD.

That makes perfect sense. Otherwise the shield enhancement bonus gets to do double duty for half the cost (armor and shield enhancements cost half as much as for a weapon). If it worked the way you used it, all combatants in a D&D world should be running around using shields for bashing purposes and weapons would be obsolete. The bashing enhancement exists because it doesn't work as you thought it did.

The rule was part of 3.0 and in 3.5 can be found on pg.217 of the DMG under Shields, where it says that shield "enhancement bonuses do not act as attack or damage bonuses when the shield is used to bash."

 

[Calico_Jack73]

The rule was part of 3.0 and in 3.5 can be found on pg.217 of the DMG under Shields, where it says that shield "enhancement bonuses do not act as attack or damage bonuses when the shield is used to bash."

Gotcha, it'd have to posess the Bashing ability (+1 Shield Bonus) to get the +1 to attack and damage. Thanks for the rule look up.

I still say that having more attacks is better than one big attack. It makes better sense from a Strength bonus standpoint. Let's say you have an 18 STR for the sake of the example and you have paired swords. Your total strength bonus if you hit both times is +8 whereas if you had a single two handed weapon you'd be +6. Sure, you do more damage with the single attack if one of the paired attacks misses but the odds are in the favor of the guy with paired weapons to hit with more total attacks.

 

[Malin Genie]

My Barbarian/Ranger uses a Longspear - reasonable damage per hit, and over the course of the campaign has probably dealt more damage due to attacks of opportunity and the occasional set vs charge than he would have with a greatsword.

 

[Frostmarrow]

Gotcha, it'd have to posess the Bashing ability (+1 Shield Bonus) to get the +1 to attack and damage. Thanks for the rule look up.

I still say that having more attacks is better than one big attack. It makes better sense from a Strength bonus standpoint. Let's say you have an 18 STR for the sake of the example and you have paired swords. Your total strength bonus if you hit both times is +8 whereas if you had a single two handed weapon you'd be +6. Sure, you do more damage with the single attack if one of the paired attacks misses but the odds are in the favor of the guy with paired weapons to hit with more total attacks.

Sadly you only do half your Str-bonus with your off-hand. So it evens out at +6 in both cases. Whether or not you do more damage with two weapons rather than one is simple artithmetics and depends on your BAB (and mods) and the target's AC. Sometimes the numbers favors the two weapons rather than the two handed, and vice versa. The calculations can be found in Sword and Fist if your curious.

But in the end two good weapons will always be more expensive than one good weapon.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

I honestly think one of the reasons that the Long Sword is the default weapon for most people is because in ages past it was the weapon that was easiest to roll up on the magical weapons chart. In 3.5 the Long Sword has a 13% range on the common melee weapons chart. The only other weapon that comes close is the Dwarven Waraxe with 11% (the Great Sword has a 10% chance.). To get a Longspear first you'd have to be lucky enough to roll the Uncommon Weapons chart and even then there is only a 3% chance to roll the Longspear. Basically if you want any chance of getting a magical version of an odd weapon you'd better pay to get it made.