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5E Is the Healer Feat Broken?

Undrave

Hero
Replenishing your use of Healer's Kit means you got something to spend all that gold on so that's a plus.

I agree that it's good, but like many I don't think it's broken. I think it's perfectly fine feat and should be considered one of the benchmark. I don't think it's optimal to use it in combat unless an ally is at 0 HP.
 

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Zardnaar

Legend
Replenishing your use of Healer's Kit means you got something to spend all that gold on so that's a plus.

I agree that it's good, but like many I don't think it's broken. I think it's perfectly fine feat and should be considered one of the benchmark. I don't think it's optimal to use it in combat unless an ally is at 0 HP.
On a thief it more or less functions as short range healing word at 5sp a shot.

Other function is a cure spell person per short rest.

It's kind of bonkers at low level. It's more or less a switch for easy mode.

By level 9 it's almost like a mass cure spell per short rest plus short range healing word. On a thief.

Top 5 feats in game IMHO. Roughly in order.

Sharpshooter
Healer
Warcaster
Resilient: constitution
GWM.

Slanted towards lower level play. Level 1 healer wins. Even compared to life cleric it's very good.

Two of those feats make concentration rolls easy, one makes healing very easy, two spike damage numbers to much.

Others are really good in their own right such as PAM but not as abusable.

Healer is also funny on celestial warlock. Sure I'll heal you but we need a short rest. And you get the healing light ability as well.

It's also decent on Spellcasters in general,blasters in particular due to lack of better options.

Most people don't find healing fun but from a power pov it's great.
 


Zardnaar

Legend
Is it worth it at lv 8 and above though?
Still good, worth taking idk depends on situation. Party composition, player skill, how much healing is needed, how many short rests you get.

I assume 6-8 encounters, two short rests, level 1-10 or so. If you nova of all the time and it's 1-3 encounters no short rests it's not so great.

Some feats scale differently. For example.

Warcaster is better than resilient con but that changes around level 9 and what type of spellcaster you are.
 

Undrave

Hero
Still good, worth taking idk depends on situation. Party composition, player skill, how much healing is needed, how many short rests you get.

I assume 6-8 encounters, two short rests, level 1-10 or so. If you nova of all the time and it's 1-3 encounters no short rests it's not so great.

Some feats scale differently. For example.

Warcaster is better than resilient con but that changes around level 9 and what type of spellcaster you are.
So it depends on opportunity. Do you need the stat bump at lv 4? If you're a human it's a VERY good pick for sure.

I wonder how late into the design process feats were added. A lot of them always felt like Fighter class features that were repurposed as feat when they decided to hit the 3.X "Fighters get tons of feats!" trope.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
So it depends on opportunity. Do you need the stat bump at lv 4? If you're a human it's a VERY good pick for sure.

I wonder how late into the design process feats were added. A lot of them always felt like Fighter class features that were repurposed as feat when they decided to hit the 3.X "Fighters get tons of feats!" trope.
Yeah I normally go vuman and take it or if I've rolled a bit higher as a non human.
 

It's kind of bonkers at low level. It's more or less a switch for easy mode.
This statement strikes me as a bit hyperbolic. The feat is good...it does not turn tier one into a series of insignificant challenges, though.

Healing Kits are 5gp per kit, which is not an entirely insubstantial cost at low level.
The Trading Post on the Borderlands, is probably not going to have 10 in stock, ready to purchase.

So presuming the PC will always have a kit, (especially at low level), is not guaranteed.

Spending an action to bring an unconscious PC with 0 HP, to 1 HP, is a great way to prevent failed Death Saves due to 0 HP characters sustaining damage.

Yet at low level, I am more afraid of getting Instant Death from a critical hit, than getting a Coup de Grace when at 0 HP.

Being upright, at 1HP, (at levels 1-3), invites Instant Death. So this use of the Healers Kit at tier one almost needs a Healing Word chaser, which is a lot of resources to spend (HW spell + H Kit charge).

The short rest healing is very nice, especially in conjunction with other abilities like Song of Rest.

All these powers serve to do, is actually enable a group to get through an adventuring day, instead of the normal 5 minute 1st level workday.

My experience with 5e, is groups call for a short rest when HP are lower then desired. A long rest is called for when spell slots are depleted.

I don’t find the Healer Feat makes 6-8 encounters at levels 1-3 easier, it makes completing them possible.
 
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Zardnaar

Legend
This statement strikes me as a bit hyperbolic. The feat is good...it does not turn tier one into a series of insignificant challenges, though.

Healing Kits are 5gp per kit, which is not an entirely insubstantial cost at low level.
The Trading Post on the Borderlands, is probably not going to have 10 in stock, ready to purchase.

So presuming the PC will always have a kit, (especially at low level), is not guaranteed.

Spending an action to bring an unconscious PC with 0 HP, to 1 HP, is a great way to prevent failed Death Saves due to 0 HP characters sustaining damage.

Yet at low level, I am more afraid of getting Instant Death from a critical hit, than getting a Coup de Grace when at 0 HP.

Being upright at 1HP at levels 1-3 invites Instant Death. So this use of the Healers Kit at tier one almost needs a Healing Word chaser, which is a lot of resources to spend (HW spell + H Kit charge).

The short rest healing is very nice, especially in conjunction with other abilities like Song of Rest.

All these powers serve to do is actually enable a group to get through an adventuring day, instead of the normal 5 minute 1st level workday.

My experience with 5e is groups call for a short rest when HP are lower then desired. A long rest is called for when spell slots are depleted.

I don’t find the Healer Feat makes 6-8 encounters at levels 1-3 easier, it makes completing them possible.
5 silver us a lot cheaper than yeah old charge from wand of clw.

Main difference is it's 1 use per short rest and you have to blow a feat.

5 person party two short rests. Compare to a life cleric level 1. That's 15 used for 15gp and a feat. 2

Stick it in a thief at level 3 (requires vuman) and it's a bonus action.
 

noko

old hag of a DM
First, I don't care how it would compare to 4e as that's not the topic and not my position. However, you can just change the fluff text. Even if the mechanics reflect the current fluff, changing the fluff doesn't make the mechanics change. If nobody cares, you describe it as whatever you want and keep the same mechanics. The mutability comes from the fact that alterations have less of an impact on balance in this game, which means there is a tremendous range of fluff already in the game. Hence, making the fluff range even further threatens less in the game.
Look at your post, pure, hydrogenated fluff.
 

Coroc

Hero
....
Anyway the feats Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter often get used as examples of broken feats in 5E but one feat strikes me as perhaps a little bit to good.
....
OT but SS and GWM are not overpowered, and the -5/+10 is VERY situational unless you use fudge dice.
AC14+ makes it very risky to use the damage boost even at medium levels (prof +3 or +4 ) and magic weapon +1 or +2.

The +10 serves you nothing if you simply do not hit. You better have advantage or at least a bless going on, with the latter using up your clerics concentration which he could maybe better use on spirit guardians from level 5 up.

The only reason I do not totally regret to have taken sharpshooter for my hunter ranger instead of another +2 to dex is the second gimmick of the feat which lets you ignore long range and up to 3/4 cover.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
OT but SS and GWM are not overpowered, and the -5/+10 is VERY situational unless you use fudge dice.
AC14+ makes it very risky to use the damage boost even at medium levels (prof +3 or +4 ) and magic weapon +1 or +2.

The +10 serves you nothing if you simply do not hit. You better have advantage or at least a bless going on, with the latter using up your clerics concentration which he could maybe better use on spirit guardians from level 5 up.

The only reason I do not totally regret to have taken sharpshooter for my hunter ranger instead of another +2 to dex is the second gimmick of the feat which lets you ignore long range and up to 3/4 cover.
Depends how much buffing you have available. Also what type of cleric you have. Bless plus fireball is often great rather than messing around with spirit guardians. Light cleric can go both ways depending on situation.

Average AC in MM apparently is 14.5. This thread is from 2016 Xanathars wasn't around. Healing Spirit as printed negates healer feat a bit. Xanathars, Volos, Mordenkainen are a bit of powercreep.
 

Respectfully Zard, you and others have posted the whiteboard numbers before.
Those are not in dispute.

What I am raising an objection to, is how well those whiteboard calculations map onto real world play, and the contention that the feat is an “easy mode”.

Vuman + 3rd level Thief is a very specific build, (with quite a few opportunity costs), baked into the bonus action to Use Object on the Healers Kit, to raise a 0 HP PC to 1 HP.

(unless the 3rd level Vuman Thief is adjacent to the 0 HP PC, movement is also going to be required by the Thief).

At the cost of having no choice of race/class/subclass/and your Vuman Feat...you get a very situational: 1HP heal, that has a component cost of 5sp, and has a range of 5 foot/touch.

My cup does not runneth over. 😀

A 3rd level Vuman Thief, cannot access the 1d6+ healing with a bonus action. Use Object does not specify the trigger condition for the healing, the Healer Feat does.

Alas the Healer feat is clear, an action is required to spend a Healer Kit charge to access the 1d6+ healing.

As an action, you can spend one use of a healer's kit to tend to a creature and restore ld6 + 4 hit points to it, plus additional hit points equal to the creature's max imum number of Hit Dice. The creature can't regain hit points from this feat again until it finishes a short or long rest.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Respectfully Zard, you and others have posted the whiteboard numbers before.
Those are not in dispute.

What I am raising an objection to, is how well those whiteboard calculations map onto real world play, and the contention that the feat is an “easy mode”.

Vuman + 3rd level Thief is a very specific build, (with quite a few opportunity costs), baked into the bonus action to Use Object on the Healers Kit to raise a 0 HP PC to 1 HP.
(unless the 3rd level Vuman Thief is adjacent to the 0 HP PC, movement is going to be required).

At the cost of having no choice of race/class/subclass/and your Vuman Feat...you get a very situational- 1HP heal, that has a component cost of 5sp, and has a range of 5e touch.

My cup does not runneth over.

A 3rd level Vuman Thief, cannot access the 1d6+ healing with a bonus action. Use Object does not specify the trigger condition for the healing, the Healer Feat does.

Alas the Healer feat is clear, an action is required to spend a Healer Kit charge to access the 1d6+ healing.

As an action, you can spend one use of a healer's kit to tend to a creature and restore ld6 + 4 hit points to it, plus additional hit points equal to the creature's max imum number of Hit Dice. The creature can't regain hit points from this feat again until it finishes a short or long rest.
Im not sure, Mistwell was asking the question. I think it was asked in Twitter about the bonus action thing.

My arguement is in the assumption that the thief can do it as a bonus action, if he can't my advice to Mistwell would be no.

It's still a great feat for Vuman wizard/cleric/bard level 1.

This is old thread,no idea if they made a ruling or how an individual DM rules it
 

CapnZapp

Legend
OT but SS and GWM are not overpowered, and the -5/+10 is VERY situational unless you use fudge dice.
No, that just suggests you aren't minmaxing hard enough. Because, trust me, there are two kinds of fighters, those that do exploit -5/+10 and those who don't.

Hint: battle master precision dice, advantage and knowing when and where to NOT use the feat are the three big ones. Adding the extra bonus here or there to take you over the top.

Anytime a party member is in the position to hand out a bonus, there's no contest - you gain the biggest benefit by far by handing it to the -5/+10 guy or gal. Every time.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
No, that just suggests you aren't minmaxing hard enough. Because, trust me, there are two kinds of fighters, those that do exploit -5/+10 and those who don't.

Hint: battle master precision dice, advantage and knowing when and where to NOT use the feat are the three big ones. Adding the extra bonus here or there to take you over the top.

Anytime a party member is in the position to hand out a bonus, there's no contest - you gain the biggest benefit by far by handing it to the -5/+10 guy or gal. Every time.
Advantage is fairly easy to get. So is buffs.

Even without buffing archery style makes it -3 to hit.
 

FarBeyondC

Explorer
A 3rd level Vuman Thief, cannot access the 1d6+ healing with a bonus action. Use Object does not specify the trigger condition for the healing, the Healer Feat does.

Alas the Healer feat is clear, an action is required to spend a Healer Kit charge to access the 1d6+ healing.

As an action, you can spend one use of a healer's kit to tend to a creature and restore 1d6 + 4 hit points to it, plus additional hit points equal to the creature's maximum number of Hit Dice. The creature can't regain hit points from this feat again until it finishes a short or long rest.
The feat lets you use the healer's kit in a new way. The action is still the Use an Object action, because every action required for an object's use (that isn't activating a magic item) is an Use an Object action.

Even if this was somehow not the case, the bonus action stabilizing +1 hp is still 100 percent valid, and that's more important than the once per short rest (per person) limited 1d6+4+HD healing the second benefit gives you.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
The feat lets you use the healer's kit in a new way. The action is still the Use an Object action, because every action required for an object's use (that isn't activating a magic item) is an Use an Object action.
That's how I understand it.

Just wondering if there's anything semi official via Twitter.
 

Coroc

Hero
No, that just suggests you aren't minmaxing hard enough. Because, trust me, there are two kinds of fighters, those that do exploit -5/+10 and those who don't.

Hint: battle master precision dice, advantage and knowing when and where to NOT use the feat are the three big ones. Adding the extra bonus here or there to take you over the top.

Anytime a party member is in the position to hand out a bonus, there's no contest - you gain the biggest benefit by far by handing it to the -5/+10 guy or gal. Every time.
Well my level 6 Ranger Hunter uses SS, with 16 DEX a +1 bow and hunter he has got +9 to hit.

Still when no advantage or bless is going on I hesitate, and rightfully so, to use SS when the Mobs AC is 15+
And our DM does not communicate the mobs AC until we can guess it ourselves quite accurately.

Another reason for that, is that my ranger uses hunters mark and colossus slayer, so that adds +2d6 +1d8 for his two attacks if he hits with both (let us assume the mob is fresh). So if I miss with the first attack, I cannot apply colossus slayer even if the second one hits, because colossus requires the mob to be injured.
 

TaranTheWanderer

Adventurer
I'm playing in a two-man group: a monk and a wizard. I gave up my ASI to take it because we had no healing. It was, literally, a life-saver. The scaled healing is only available 1/short rest, so it's not nearly as good as Leadership which can boost all party members.

Being able to boost someone back to 1hp is nice too but, it takes an action, you have to have your kit out, which usually means dropping whatever you're holding.

Also, in the many games I've been in, I've only seen it used twice - and, both times, it was in small parties that had no means of healing. I think most people look at it and say, "that's great!" but then they look at the other feats and, often, choose one that boosts a stat.
 

Asisreo

Demon's Advocate
It's a brand new character starting at level 1 and I have not developed the RPG elements enough to know that, beyond the fact he's a rogue who swipes from the wealthy to give to the poor and his family. So it could fit fine, but as we are just beginning it could also be I fit the characters concept around the mechanics.



I don't have that answer. If I did, I wouldn't have asked about it :)
Healer is, as far as I know, the only way to get someone up in combat for free (except for Paladin's lay on hands)
That's how I understand it.

Just wondering if there's anything semi official via Twitter.
I mean, things do exactly as they say. The healer feat isn't saying it activates when you use the healer kit, it activates when you spend an action and the consequence is the healing. In fact, it says nothing about the healer kit needing to be in-hand so a rogue with fast hands gets the BA without any interaction shenanigans.

It's really good if you don't have a Paladin or Cleric and it's useful if you're not taking other feats to do damage yourself. GWM and SS has a reputation but ultimately, they're okay. I find it a bit strange that players attempt to get the most damage or something when HP is abstract and the DM usually keeps the monster up long enough for a satisfying fight. ASI increases are, imo, better in more situations. It is the only way to increase your stats naturally and your stats effect your to-hit, damage, save DC, saving throws, and health. A dex allocation gives +1 to-hit, damage, saving throws and AC. And if you're on point-buy, then you'd most likely need to spec into it once.

Having an extra option is nice but consistency is better.
 
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