D&D 5E Is the imbalance between classes in 5e accidental or by design?

[Minigiant]

I'm going to have to come down to saying that the imbalance is intentional.

I don't know that the Next design team intended to make imbalanced classes as such.

Nevertheless, they intentionally made spellcasting scale from sleep to hypnotic pattern to wall of stone, with a vast array of specified discrete combat and non-combat options, and martial capabilities not really scale apart from more damage, in the "front 10" levels alone (with a few exceptions such as Battle master or hunter ranger tricks), with a trickle of defined non-combat functionality outside of spellcasting (mostly confined to Expertise for bards and rogues, Natural Explorer for rangers, and a few other tricks for rogues), never mind the "back 10" when we get stuff like planar ally or wish versus... your third use of Indomitable in a day or a third die on Brutal Critical! (Whew!)

They made those design decisions, and I don't think they were so dense as to be unable to imagine what the consequences would be. So, yes, intentional.

I think the in-house play testing was heavily skew to the point that a lot of the things the the community saw as UP or OP was fine there.

That's the true heel of 5e, the design team didn't have enough diversity. Diversity of playstyle. And they let people with similar playstyles blind them to other styles.

That's why 5e is chock full of "Why does this work like that." and the team being shocked what people played.

 

[DND_Reborn]

So we'll run through 6-8 encounters with a party of 4-5 with two short rests and see who does the most damage over the course of the day? I wanna play the rogue! I betchya I can win the damage contest, and I'm terrible at optimizing! What level?

I don't know, you'd have to ask @Flamestrike as they would be running it. We'll see if they respond.

 

[HammerMan]

So we'll run through 6-8 encounters with a party of 4-5 with two short rests and see who does the most damage over the course of the day? I wanna play the rogue! I betchya I can win the damage contest, and I'm terrible at optimizing! What level?

Damage isn’t what we are measuring or is overall ability to effect the game.

 

[Parmandur]

Damage isn’t what we are measuring or is overall ability to effect the game.

For the designers, damage/healing ovwr the course of a full day is the measure of balance.

That's how the game us built, it's the underlying mathematical logic. Discussing anything else would be pointless.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

So we'll run through 6-8 encounters with a party of 4-5 with two short rests and see who does the most damage over the course of the day? I wanna play the rogue! I betchya I can win the damage contest, and I'm terrible at optimizing! What level?

if you really want to do this I suggest you use a pre done adventure... if not it proves nothing becuse a pro wizard is over powered can easily make a day set to help them, a pro fighter is equal can do the same for fighter

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Damage isn’t what we are measuring or is overall ability to effect the game.

Well, THAT's a noble goal, but it's a lot harder to judge. I'd be interested in trying to figure it out, sure. Sounds fun.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

For the designers, damage/healing ovwr the course of a full day is the measure of balance.

That's how the game us built, it's the underlying mathematical logic. Discussing anything else would be pointless.

I wouldn't go as far as to say "pointless" but "subjective" might be more appropriate. I'd be interested in a test that tries to track several variables.

Damage; Healing; Battlefield Control; Damage Mitigation; Assistance; etc.

 

[Parmandur]

Well, THAT's a noble goal, but it's a lot harder to judge. I'd be interested in trying to figure it out, sure. Sounds fun.

The damage by Spell Level chart in the DMG has that covered already.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

The damage by Spell Level chart in the DMG has that covered already.

I have no idea what you mean here. I think we are talking about judging useful things that happen during a combat that don't involve damage.

 

[HammerMan]

The damage by Spell Level chart in the DMG has that covered already.

Right that’s the one that says Tasha’s laughter ending an encounter and hold person ending an encounter is worth less then a single spell denied from counterspell