Is The Keep on the Borderlands a well-designed adventure module?

[Mark]

There is a short, very interesting, and fairly negative review by none other than Mike Mearls over on RPGNet (http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_1250.html)

The only logical conclusion is that the keep is some sort of dictatorial fascist outpost straight out of 1984 (. . .)

And, yet, the module was written in the late seventies . .

 

[Akrasia]

I notice an interesting thing missing from the reviews here that was a major problem for many with The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh – the NPC betrayer.

Several people said that Ned Shakeshaft in SSS was a bad thing – an NPC that will betray the PCs. A couple people said that he alone was the reason they said SSS was not a well-designed adventure module.

And yet, in KotB, there are many such NPCs. The priest in the Keep that will join the PCs and betray them. The prisoner in the bugbear cave that will attack immediately upon being released. The medusa chained up in the temple caves who will stone characters who come around the corner to rescue her. Why has no one complained about these?

Quasqueton

NPCs betraying PCs is a great virtue in a module!

I ran part of KotB last year (using C&C, with JohnSnow as one of the players). The 'betrayal' by the priest from the Keep was a high point in the game. The players themselves seemed to enjoy that turn of events afterwards (even though they were unpleasantly surprised at the moment of the betrayal).

I find it amazing that some people think that in a 'good' module no NPCs should be deceitful backstabbers. That's ridiculous.

 

[Akrasia]

Akrasia? Help me out here...This came up when we were playing through Keep last year. Do you remember?

Sorry John, but I don't think that the skeleton you're talking about is in B2, and I don't remember it coming up during our game. Maybe you're thinking of some other module we talked about?

 

[lukelightning]

The solution to the giant skeleton in the 10' cave:

Hilly the Hill giant got blind stinking drunk. He crawled home to his cave, of course crawling into the wrong one since he was drunk. The next morning, hung over as all heck, he stood up suddenly when he realize he had to pee reeeeeaaallly bad. And in standing up his head hit the ceiling and cracked his skull and he died.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Removed

 

[Quasqueton]

NPCs betraying PCs is a great virtue in a module!

Well, I wouldn’t say it was a virtue. Perfectly acceptable as a plot item, an interesting twist, potentially good game fun, sure.

I find it amazing that some people think that in a 'good' module no NPCs should be deceitful backstabbers. That's ridiculous.

That is ridiculous. I don’t think anyone said or suggested that.

Personally, I have no problem with the Ned Shakeshaft plot item in SSS. In fact, I really like it – it was well done/written. I also don’t have a problem with the Chaos priest in the Keep who will betray the PCs. Notice that I never said anything negative about the scenario, at all.

I was just curious as to why those who had a problem with the NPC trick/betrayal in SSS didn’t speak up with a problem with the same scenario in KotB.

Quasqueton

 

[Mycanid]

Well ... I didn't think it was that well designed personally as a whole. The ideas and setting, etc., were good. But it was the caves that gave me problems. I just never bought so many monsters all living together in one place. Yes, it says they are all fighting and what not, I know. I guess I just wasn't convinced.

Wasn't this module originally written for the Basic ruleset rather than the ADnD? (But this is just a nitpicking aside sorta thing.)

Anyway - this is one of the early ones that didn't catch my interest, although I did like the Erol Otus art.

 

[Melan]

Based on Quasqueton's quotes, the following people voiced objections against Ned Snakeshaft:
Joshua Randall
Raven Crowking
Ed_Laprade
Of this three, only RC has commented in this thread so far, which isn't much of an overlap (granted, the sample is rather small, too, and I didn't look through the other thread for more). Maybe different people reply to different threads and have different opinions about different modules.

 

[Maggan]

And, yet, the module was written in the late seventies . .

And 1984 was written in 1948, if I recall correctly.

/M

 

[Storm Raven]

And, yet, the module was written in the late seventies . .

Actually, it was written in 1980. Look at the copyright date on the cover.