Is The Keep on the Borderlands a well-designed adventure module?

[Delta]

See the "Tavern" key.

 

[Cabled]

You left off an important voting option of "Bree-Yark!"

Would that be the "Hey Rube" version of Bree-Yark, or the "Intruders" version?

 

[The Shaman]

See the "Tavern" key.

But that would actually involve reading the adventure...

 

[MuL]

B2 has to be one the best modules ever made its pure classic D&D.

I mean how many people over the years fell in that 10' pit in the beginning of part A or got beat down by the owlbear because that was the first cave you went into.

 

[Hussar]

But that would actually involve reading the adventure...

Well, I'll cop to the fact that I hadn't actually read the Keep in some time. So, I cracked open the cover once again and took a look. Even went to where Delta directed me. This is what I found:

There is a 10% chance that each of the following persons will be in the tavern at any given time:

CORPORAL OF THE WATCH
CAPTAIN OF THE WATCH
BAILIFF (see 6., above)
PRIEST (see 7b., above)
2-4 WATCHMEN (see 12., above)
SERGEANT OF THE GUARD (see 18., below)
WANDERER (a 2nd or 3rd level fighter, dwarf, elf, or
halfling as the DM decides, with complete equipment
for adventuring; such a wanderer is 75% likely to join
an expedition if offered 25% of the treasure gained, but
1 in 6 will be of chaotic alignment).

So, basically, there is a 1 in 10 chance that the priest is even IN the tavern each time the party happens to be there. Thus:

You forgot one very important part of that equation: Probability that he will meet the party unless the DM contrives it? Very, very small. Chances he will see play unless the DM forces it? Zero.

pretty much nails it on the head. There is a very small chance that the priest will ever be in the same room as the party. There is an even smaller chance that the party will be interested in him even if he is - after all, if I need a healer, why am I in the bar and not getting healed at the chapel? So, unless the DM contrives the situation, the chances are very, very slight that the priest will have any impact whatsoever upon the game.

But, hey, this is the best example of module design right? After all, all those who are chiming in and talking about it have also read the module recently no?

 

[Endur]

There is a very small chance that the priest will ever be in the same room as the party. There is an even smaller chance that the party will be interested in him even if he is - after all, if I need a healer, why am I in the bar and not getting healed at the chapel? So, unless the DM contrives the situation, the chances are very, very slight that the priest will have any impact whatsoever upon the game.

This is the way a module should be designed. The evil priest is off doing his own thing. The GM does not have to contrive any way for the party to interact with him. No wild coincidences or other flukes that lead the party to the evil priest. Some parties will never find the evil priest in the Keep, even though they spend years adventuring in the Keep.

 

[Hussar]

This is the way a module should be designed. The evil priest is off doing his own thing. The GM does not have to contrive any way for the party to interact with him. No wild coincidences or other flukes that lead the party to the evil priest. Some parties will never find the evil priest in the Keep, even though they spend years adventuring in the Keep.

Years?

This is a module for 1st to 3rd level characters. I had always assumed that after they were done, they might, just maybe, go somewhere else? What are they doing hanging out here for years? Talking with the crazy hermit with a bowl?

To me, an element that is entirely random, with a fairly low chance of success is wasted space in a module. There is nothing the party can do to increase that chance of encounter. Sure they could go to his rooms, but, then how do they hear about him? If they never meet him in the tavern, there's no reason to enquire about him. Sure, the DM could start dropping hints, but, then, why bother having the random chance of meeting?

To me, a well designed module would give a list of goals for our Evil Priest, a timetable for achieving these goals and a number of hooks to bring the party in with these goals either as dupes or foils. Why waste space in a module, other than as filler, with something that will likely never see play? And, additionally, since this is meant as a module to teach DM's how to create adventures, is this a particularly good lesson to teach?

 

[Dr_Rictus]

It's funny; I didn't realize I had a definite opinion on this topic until I was recently looking at my notes regarding design of a short introductory adventure for people who may not have played D&D before. There in my first bullet point (about keeping things to a simple evocative premise rather than a whole plot) was the annotation: "Think Keep on the Borderlands."

 

[lukelightning]

This is a module for 1st to 3rd level characters. I had always assumed that after they were done, they might, just maybe, go somewhere else? What are they doing hanging out here for years? Talking with the crazy hermit with a bowl?

No, after you kill all the creatures in the caves you go back and kill everyone in the keep. At least that's how I played it; I wanted all the treasure in the module!

 

[Endur]

Years? This is a module for 1st to 3rd level characters.

In BD&D, it took a long time to get up to 3rd level. Especially since it was very easy to get killed. The Caves of Chaos recruit new monsters and the Priests can animate slain monsters.

So, yes, a group could adventure for years. I had two campaigns in the Keep that lasted over a year (one in the early 80's, one in 3e).