Is the Monk overpowered?

[Black Knight Irios]

Well, you can't take, say, Weapon focus (orb).

Not all implements can benefit from Weapon Focus but some can and the "some" are all those that are weapons as well.

 

[Budalic]

Not all implements can benefit from Weapon Focus but some can and the "some" are all those that are weapons as well.

Not my point. The fact that some implements are also a weapons makes them superior for damage oriented and/or keyword changing purposes. Staff is eaons better than any of wizard implements for damage, because it is also a weapon, and thus can benefit from Weapon focus. Implement focus feat would level the playing field, making, say, elemental resistance breaching tomes, some orbs, and at-will enhancing wands also good.

If you are, say, a warlock, you have to pick either Arcane Implement Proficiency (a weapon, staff is the best because of Staff of Ruin) and Weapon focus with that weapon or take Pact enhanced weapon and Weapon focus. Rods, built specifically for warlocks, are left dry. Luckly, Dual implement spellcaster helps in this case.

Staff is the worst offender. It is both an implement, making it a Superior implement option; it is a weapon, so Weapon focus and Flaming/Frost/Lighting options apply; and it has Staff of ruin as an enchantment.

And dont get me started on Syberis shard of Mage...

 

[Zaran]

Guys, no offense but you are getting off the topic. We were discussing whether monks are overpowered when compared to other strikers. Let's leave the superior implement discussion for another thread. I don't think feats and abilites that feats grant should be too much of a factor since pretty much every class has feats that it can benefit from.

I love monks, but Korjik and I have been comparing the class to other strikers and on paper the monk seems overpowered. We've had few posts on how monks have compared to other strikers. So far, I've learned that Rogues are much more accurate than monks.

Let's look at Sly Flourish vs Crane's Wings at Level 1 using the standard array attributes both with combat advantage.

With a Dagger, a Brutal Scoundrel rogue would have a to-hit of +10 (+4 Dex +3 Prof +1 Class +2 CA) vs AC and do 1d4+2d6 +9 (+4 Dex +3 Cha +2 Str)

About 18.5 pts of damage

A Stone Fist monk in the same situation would have a to-hit of +6 (+4 Dex +2 CA) vs Fort and would do to 1d10+10 (+4 Dex +3 Str+3 Stone first) to the same target.

That's about 15.5 damage.

To me, the Rogue beats the monk hands down in both accuracy and damage at least in At-Wills damage. I belive that if the monk is overpowered it would be in the extras like being able move around more or in the high damage Encounter and Dailies.

I personally do not think that the movement extras are overpowered. Sticking with the rogue as comparison, they can get at-wills that let them have a free shift or couple squares of extra Move that is comparable to the move actions Monks get as part of their At-wills.

 

[Budalic]

You have to keep in mind that rogue excels with single target powers, while monk is more of a multi-target striker. Comparision with sorcerer is probably better. But, if you are comparing rogue and monk, rogue starts better (like you pointed out) and the gap between them keeps expanding because rogue is better supported by far. Rogue has PHB, Martial power, MP2, and some DDI material, while monk has just the PHB 3.
Brutal scoundrel rogue with 18 dex and 16 str will have an attack of +8 vs. reflex, 1d4 + 2d6 + 7 damage, while stone fist monk with same stats has +4 vs. fort (usually weaker defense), 1d10 + 10 damage.
Mobility is nice, but rogue with Deft strike has nice ranged option, too.

 

[Tarrl]

I will be playing a 7th level half Orc stonefist Monk in the next few weeks. Any magic item or feats I should take?

 

[Budalic]

I will be playing a 7th level half Orc stonefist Monk in the next few weeks. Any magic item or feats I should take?

I recommend Hafted defense + Weapon focus (staff) + Staff of Ruin

And Unarmored Agility is the best feat Monk can take.

EDIT: I forgot Superior Implement Proficiency (Accurate Staff)

 

[Neonchameleon]

I recommend Hafted defense + Weapon focus (staff) + Staff of Ruin

And Unarmored Agility is the best feat Monk can take.

EDIT: I forgot Superior Implement Proficiency (Accurate Staff)

Why a Staff of Ruin +2? Staff of the Serpent +2 is probably better. (+d6 poison damage to all your melee powers).

 

[Budalic]

Why a Staff of Ruin +2? Staff of the Serpent +2 is probably better. (+d6 poison damage to all your melee powers).

It doesn't work with close burst/blast powers, like Five Storms. And IMO, Five Storms is the best Monk at-will.

But yeah, if you don't have a lot of close powers, Staff of Serpent is better until late paragon (keep in mind that poison is the most commonly resisted element, though)

 

[mysticknight232]

I will be playing a 7th level half Orc stonefist Monk in the next few weeks. Any magic item or feats I should take?

I'm playing a Centered Breath Monk currently lvl 2 in a LFR campaign. I chose Versitile Expertise (Ki Focus and Spear) at lvl 1 and Pointed Step Style at lvl 2. I feel that the dmg output is nearly identical with the Centered Breath compared to the Stone Fist and I liked the reach that Pointed Step Style provided me when wielding a Spear, especially with the Slide ability of the power. While I do like using a staff and taking Hafted Defense, my plan is to select Unarmored Agility at lvl 4 then go the Two Weapon Fighting/Defense route for lvls 6/8 while duel wielding a Spear and a Dagger. For lvl 10 I will either choose Defensive Mobility because I move around a lot as a Monk or Melee Training: Agility for OAs. I'm lucky and picked up a Magic Spear +2 when I hit lvl 2 right away so my MBA isn't as bad as it should be, but I still feel like Melee Training will come in handy.

Anyway, that's my two cents worth. It can be applied in similar fashion to your Stone Fist Monk build, just substitute Spear with a Club and take the Club feat to increase your FoB dmg by +2 if you liked what you read here.

 

[Budalic]

I'm lucky and picked up a Magic Spear +2 when I hit lvl 2 right away so my MBA isn't as bad as it should be, but I still feel like Melee Training will come in handy.

I don't think Stone Fist monk can justify +1 to MBA for a feat (Melee Training: Dexterity)

Anyway, that's my two cents worth. It can be applied in similar fashion to your Stone Fist Monk build, just substitute Spear with a Club and take the Club feat to increase your FoB dmg by +2 if you liked what you read here.

Said Club feat is called Crashing Tempest Style. You can also take a Belt of the Brawler to use your unarmed attack as a Club. This route is pretty good if you want to take Starblade Flurry in paragon.