Is the RPG Industry on Life Support? (Merged w/"Nothing Dies")

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Having seen some of the challenges facing the PDF market, I'd have to call that innacurate. People like books and will continue to use them for some time, until the reader technology improves significantly (among other hurdles.) (Remember what happened to notions of a "paperless office"?)

You're talking about preaching to the converted. Of course the current generation of gamers love books. No doubt. But I wasn't referring to D&D books or pdfs or even current D&D players. I was referring to the next generation of kids who have little interest in reading. Give a new player a choice between the Player's Handbook and a D&D video game and we all know what that choice will be (especially if that kid is a boy).

D&D/RPGs will continue to lose ground to video games, especially as the graphics and playability continue to improve in leaps and bounds. We can cling to our books and tales of the "good 'ol days" but the future is electronic, not hard copy. RPG makers would be best to realize that and learn to adapt. Remember, I'm not talking about "the now", I'm talking about the future. I'd really hate to see D&D cater itself to its core audience (including myself) only to see the game wither away and die as the next generation of gamers play Halo 5, Baldur's Gate 10, Neverwinter Nights 5, etc., etc., etc.

Personally, I think it's a crying shame that WotC and other RPG makers aren't spearheading the "electronicization" of RPGs. Quite the contrary, they've dropped the ball on the matter (can anyone say, E-Tools?).

 

[Sholari]

If every other rpg company disappeared and WotC sales stayed the same as they are right now, the overall difference in the success of the rpg industry would be small (not insignificant, but small).

And that is why any significant misteps by Wizards of the Coast could really be detrimental to the hobby as a whole. With the company owned by Hasbro I wouldn't think that the executive decision makers are as in tune with the market as in the past. I've seen firsthand how a couple bad executive decisions can ruin a division for years in the future.

 

[Sholari]

I've introduced many new people to D&D, and I'm seeing quite a few entering the game because of the new Basic game and the D&D Miniatures game.

Thanks, Merric. I think its great that you do that. Keep up the good work

 

[The Shaman]

Of course, I'm at a point now where I really don't need any more new RPGs (D&D or otherwise). If they come out, great, but if not, I'm fine with that too. There's enough already out there to last several lifetimes.

This is interesting in light of one of the oft-repeated comments on the "why don't you buy Dragon?" thread: the glut of crunch.

 

[tristan_tewksbury]

Now each book is really expensive! Computer games seem to be setting the flavour and level of realism necessary for role playing games. I have players who want to make sure that all their characters get the same treatment they can expect in Neverwinter Nights. The rules are so complicated it seems you need a lawyer to balance them and making dungeons Wow what a hassle!

This is actually the biggest problem I have with all of this. It is such a pain to make a new adventure with all the work you need to do. Once you are out of college, it becomes increasingly difficult to find the time to devote to building just an adventure.

WotC needs to get their collective heads out of where ever they have packed them and figure out how to let SOMEONE make a really useful set of computer tools to help the harried DM (who is trying balancing a job and family with gaming) build an adventure for the next game session. PCGen just does not cut it.

Dundjinni is a start (for adventure design), but needs to integrate with a really useful system for generating characters - even a database of pregenerated stock characters and monsters would be a huge help.

Judging from the PCGen project, this needs to be done with actuall paid programmers and real project management. I have seen some very good tools of late that do bits and pieces, but a full, integrated character generator is going to be very complicated and painful to make. Unfortunately, the complexity of the rules just about demand that one exist if you do not want to spend hours on the generation of each NPC, monster and character.

Everything is a character -- I refuse to calculate feats, prestige classes, & all the administrivia for every dimly observed figure in a storyline.

So don't do it. Most likely it will not be that critical to the storyline.

I think that WOTC have to restructure the advanced rules and publish them with a computer program to help with world creation. Something better and cheaper than Etools.

You need to make up your mind - do you want better or cheaper?

The amount of work needed to make a decent tool is going to cost a pretty penny since you need real, paid developers to do the job. I would be willing to pay a reasonable amount for a tool that is actually useful. Unfortunately, Etools was not even close to fitting that bill!

I hesitated to buy Dundjinni due to the artwork issues, but finally broke down because I want something that is easier to deal with than a tweaked CAD program. (I think that Campaign Cartographer is a great product, but it is not simple to use by any stretch!)

SpellGen is a very nice tool, if limited in scope. (Disclosure: I know the programmer and have worked on building several data files, so I am biased). However, it is open and flexible enough to accomodate a lot of the variants that are available.

The various "Steve's" spreadsheets were very nice and fairly extensible. Unfortunately, they could not keep up with all the rules variations that are present in the D20 character design scope.

Apologies if I have offended any open source aficionados, but my experience with all open source projects is that you may find them useful if you are bleeding-edge enough or happen to agree with one of the contributor's definition of a cool character. If you do not, then do not hope for a great deal of support for your character in an open source character designer.

 

[Fenes]

I don't really see an "overcomplexity" in practise. I have the core rules in 3.0 and 3.5 and a ton of splatbooks from various companies, and in actual play we use the core rules 3.0, and a few feats, prestige classes or spells from other books - usually the player comes and say "Can I have this?" and we go over the thing in question.
Too many stats? I beg to differ, I don't need a statted out rogue for each encounter featuring a rogue. Skill = level+3 usually works for non combat encounters very well. Too many weapons? No one forces me to use them. If a player wants a special weapon, ok, but that does not mena I have to outfit half my world with it as well. Same for prestige classes, feats and spells.

 

[Ed Cha]

Sure, there might be a downturn in d20, but people are playing RPGs as usual. I think things are just evolving, especially the way RPGs are being sold. PDFs are getting more popular, but there are also other things happening in the industry.

For example, my new project, Indie Press Revolution, provides an alternative way of selling RPGs and RPG-related products on behalf of the creator-publishers themselves. We do this with a "direct sales first" approach. It's not for everyone, but it's one way that people who create the games can network together and get their products to as many people as possible and do it profitably.

Anyhow, perhaps sales are down for some companies, but not for everyone. Maybe there are fewer d20 players now than there were during the first couple years of the new system, but there are PLENTY of people playing RPGs and there always will be.

 

[MerricB]

Personally, I think it's a crying shame that WotC and other RPG makers aren't spearheading the "electronicization" of RPGs. Quite the contrary, they've dropped the ball on the matter (can anyone say, E-Tools?).

Let's see...

Neverwinter Nights
E-Tools
D&D Online

I think that covers most of the bases.

Wizards isn't a software company.

Cheers!

 

[Wormwood]

Between X-Box Live, City of Heroes, and World of Warcraft (+Teamspeak), my gaming group of 11 years has migrated from RPGs to online gameplay.

The only thing that will bring them back to the table is if they are bored with online play.

Another way of looking at it: there is NOTHING the RPG industry can do to lure them away from the console/keyboard.

And finally, for the first time in over a decade, my Christmas list contains ZERO RPG books.

Instead, I'm buying a slick gaming computer.

/can't beat 'em

 

[PatEllis15]

Merric, I respect you greatly, but to say that E-Tools is part of a tri-fecta of electronic tools that well serve D&D players is NOT accurate.

There is no reason that they can't learn from NWN. Lisence the the work out, and get the royalties...


In any event, this thread is an interesting read. I don't see myself ever NOT playing D&D. But I also find it hard to imagine moving to a new edition again. I don't want to be even more of in the closet geek when I'm 50... I want to see people playing D&D... Unfortuantely with 2 small kids, and a Wife, I don't have the time to maintain my house, let alone spend weekends at Game Stores to bring in new players.

Someone over at MaxMini's suggested spreading the word this Holiday season by buying a copy of the new Basic Game and tossing toyour local toy drive before Christmas. I'll be doing that.


As for a general decline in D20, I can't say that I'd be surprised. I couldn't possibly incorporate just the WotC material, let alone all the other great stuff being produced. We get by with just the basics...

Pat E