Is the SIZE modifier more trouble than it's worth?

[IceFractal]

That's why I usually give big creatures the Power Attack feat and have them use it to the maximum amount possible, which fits the "clumsy but hits really hard" effect. However, you should be careful of giants with two-handed weapons - they'll do so much damage they could one-hit kill a PC. In general, you might want to reduce their Strength/base damage a bit to compensate for the huge PA bonus.

 

[Stalker0]

That's why I usually give big creatures the Power Attack feat and have them use it to the maximum amount possible, which fits the "clumsy but hits really hard" effect. However, you should be careful of giants with two-handed weapons - they'll do so much damage they could one-hit kill a PC. In general, you might want to reduce their Strength/base damage a bit to compensate for the huge PA bonus.

This is a very good point, I like it. Part of how monsters act is how your run them, not just their stats.

As for grappling, I do like the size mods, but I agree grappling can get a little crazy sometimes. But for one, I try to use the -20 mod a lot. It makes sense that a dinosaur with a halfling in his mouth is not going to be inconvienced...and it also gives the players a chance of getting out.

I also use the escape artist rules from AE, which imo are a VAST improvement over regular escape artist. The concept is simple, when you use escape artist the enemy does NOT get his size mod to his grapple check. So a halfing escaping from a dinosaur would only have to get past the dinosaur's strength and BAB, not his massive size bonus.

 

[Azalnubizar]

the idea that you loose the size-bonus to grabble vs EscapeArtist is something I really do like.

The problem with the giant should be clumsy but do much damage is, that in D&D the chance to hit (which should have to do with your weapon skill and your dexterity) depends only on your strength. Also - you do not have a difference between dodging someone or letting his hit be stopped by armor...

as long as you don't come up with a rule about that, you will allways face the problem of strong foes that should be clumsy but are not...

...I do like the idea of using power-attack to compensate for the clumsy + much damage - thing, but as you said, this boosts the damage even more, making it an very easy 1-hit-killer.

All-in-all I do like the fact that large & larger creatures are more powerful.
I normally try to play giants clumsy - but not change their stats for that.
Therefore - I do not agree to remove the size-thingy.

 

[reanjr]

I'm a huge fan of the size mods. They're plausible, easy to remember, and elegant. I don't really find them to be unbalancing since Large creatures will just get higher CRs anyway. And imagine a player's reaction when they lost in a grapple with a 3" tall fairy. That's just silly. They should almost always win.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Sorry, Merric; I also like size modifiers.

 

[blargney the second]

I like the basic size modifiers, except for the ability score changes. They're a bit potent.

 

[TheNovaLord]

Certainly, the Grapple check modifier is of such a magnitude to make being grabbed by a large creature (often of high strength in any case) no contest at all, and ends up making some monsters much tougher than they should be.

QUOTE]
Mostly like them, despise them in grapple and disarm. Cant believe grapple is a touch attack. Any clumsy old 5 Dex giant can grab as many moderately armoured halflings as he wishes. the fact that grabbing someone and dispersing a magical energy upon them is the same. Grapple also is awful is the grappled has a natural bite attack (especially when they can be forced from speaking by a pin). I think it is pretty hand to pin both arms and stop someone talking (especially a cleric in a full helm). I realsie they want to have more combat options, but DnD isnt a realistic simulation so when they try to do so i think the rules get betta and worse. Classes, HP and GP to make magic items i like cos they are a stylised thing kept as simple as possible to make the game flow. Tend to find its important that a combat was fought , not the minutae of it.

worse with disarm where its easier to disarm someones dagger if you a greatsword than a rapier seems silly?

apart from that, hide, AC, to hit etc are all goood

Dragons do get big bonuses to hit, but a 100hp black dragon may have 10 or more to hit but they do pants damage. Then again there CR are relatively low so i suppose its balance.

 

[Glyfair]

Cant believe grapple is a touch attack. Any clumsy old 5 Dex giant can grab as many moderately armoured halflings as he wishes

And what would you replace it with? Hitting the Armor Class? Then you have it where the clumsy old 5 Dex giant has an easy time grabbing the unarmored halfling rogue, and a hard time grabbing the gnome with full plate armor.

I'm open to some changes. I could be convinced the grapple modifier for size should be changed, or at least the system. I have a really hard time grabbing my friend's puppy, even though I'm much larger than it (I don't recall dogs getting huge escape artist bonuses).

Hide modifiers, on the other hand, should stay. There is no way a Frost Giant with a 10 Dex should be able to hide as well as a Pixie with the same 10 Dex.

 

[reanjr]

I like the basic size modifiers, except for the ability score changes. They're a bit potent.

If you're referring to the monster advancement by hit dice that's kind of a special case comparing, say, large bears to huge bears. Not medium dogs to large bears.

 

[reanjr]

And what would you replace it with? Hitting the Armor Class? Then you have it where the clumsy old 5 Dex giant has an easy time grabbing the unarmored halfling rogue, and a hard time grabbing the gnome with full plate armor.

Actually, it would be reasonable to apply the opposite of the standard grapple size modifier to the AC of the defender and attack roll of the attacker for the purposes of initiating a grapple. It can be hard to get a good hold on something small and squirming, but once you've got it, it's not getting away.