Is the SIZE modifier more trouble than it's worth?

[Geron Raveneye]

How about automatically granting smaller targets the equivalent of the Dodge feat vs. opponents two or three size categories larger than themselves for as long as they are in combat with them? Or simply exchange the inherent Size bonus to a Circumstance bonus that takes the size differences between opponents into account? Like a halfling, who gets a +4 bonus to Hide if he tries to hide from a human, but a +16 if he tries to hide from a giant?

 

[reanjr]

Or simply exchange the inherent Size bonus to a Circumstance bonus that takes the size differences between opponents into account? Like a halfling, who gets a +4 bonus to Hide if he tries to hide from a human, but a +16 if he tries to hide from a giant?

That doesn't really make sense. You're hidden or you're not. Except in the most extreme of cases, the size of the spotter makes no difference. Also, by making it a circumstance bonus, you have to calculate it every time. With the current system, everything's always added in and makes sense for opponents of all sizes.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I like the mod. Easy enough not to mess up much, and I like the idea that you have an easier time hitting that big dragon than this little fly (though hitting him is not enough - you have to go through his thick hide, hende the natural armour bonus).

I think it's just the right combination between complexity and ease of use.

I do remember the old way size was handled, and it was ridiculous: Doing more damage with your longsword because the thing is larger? Sure, I'll skewer that halfling, having the blade come out of his back, and deal 1d8. I'll attack the dragon with what would be a pinprick for him, barely getting through his thick hide and the layer of flash, and deal 1d12.

 

[Dr Simon]

the idea that you loose the size-bonus to grabble vs EscapeArtist is something I really do like.

The problem with the giant should be clumsy but do much damage is, that in D&D the chance to hit (which should have to do with your weapon skill and your dexterity) depends only on your strength. Also - you do not have a difference between dodging someone or letting his hit be stopped by armor...

But the giant already has a -ve modifier to his attack by virtue of being Large (-1) or Huge (-2?), factored into the equation. And if the other fella is Small, he's got a +1 to AC, so the total differential increases again.

Plus, you *do* have a difference between a miss and an armour stop - if the attack roll is greater than Touch AC but less than total AC - that's a hit stopped by armour. If its less than touch AC, that's an outright miss.

I'd sort of agree with you on the fact that melee attacks rely on Strength solely for their modifier. The Weapon Finesse feat kinda sorta addresses this so that you can have a dextrous knife-man of fencer a la Grey Mouser. At a tangent, you could also address this by dividing weapons into 'Strength' and 'Dexterity' modifiied weapons, or you could emulate RuneQuest and have minimum STR and Dex scores required to wield weapons, with penalties for scores below those.

 

[Dr Simon]

Let's look at, well, first one I pulled off the SRD, a Fire Giant.

BAB +11
Grapple +25

Str 31 (+10), Dex 9 (-1)

He's Large, so he gets a -1 penalty to attack.

So, the question is, what should the touch attack to initiate a grapple be at. By the RAW I guess it ought to be +20 (BAB+Strength modifier-size), which is pretty much going to overcome even a slippery halfling's touch AC (say, Dex 20, Dodge feat, gives a touch AC of 17 for a small person). Does, however, adding Strength to this attack make sense? If you changed it to a Dex modifer, he'd have a pathetic +9 touch attack, which wuld be more in keeping with the slow but strong idea of giants (although still standing a good chance to grab our slippery halfling).

But then, a Large giant isn't *that* big - he's 12ft tall, which is only about 4 times the size of the halfling - it's hardly trying to catch a fly, or a puppy for that matter.

If we up the size difference - a Huge Storm Giant,

Str 39 (+14), Dex 14 (+2)
BAB+14/Grp+36 (Size mod +8)

Now try the negative-grapple size-based modifier, he's got a base +6 chance to initiate a grapple. If he's doing a spot of giant-wrasslin' with a fellow Storm Giant, he's only got to beat a touch AC of 10. If he's trying to grab the slippery halfling, he's got to beat AC 17.

If you used the inverse of the size-based grappling modifier (in this case 'twould be -4) then you would have an initial touch attack of +7

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I really like the size modifier, especially for advancing monsters. One of the best innovations in the game, IMO.

It does seem a little weird, however, that a creature that receives an enlarge person spell receives different benefits than a creature advanced one size category.

 

[BlueBlackRed]

Is the size modifier more trouble than it's worth?

No.
It adds a bit of realism.
The modifiers are not a problem once you are used to them.

 

[Cam Banks]

Of all the many modifiers in D&D, this one's probably the last one I would have thought of as a problem. It sounds like you've had far too many giants and dragons grappling their way into your ire, dude.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Hussar]

But then, a Large giant isn't *that* big - he's 12ft tall, which is only about 4 times the size of the halfling - it's hardly trying to catch a fly, or a puppy for that matter.

But, think about this for a second. My two year old daughter is 3 feet tall. That's halfling sized. How much effort would it really take me to grab and pin her? Not a whole lot. Now, picture that I'm now twice as big as I am currently and about ten times heavier. Grabbing her would still be (ahem) child's play and there's pretty much bugger all she could do about it.

 

[EricNoah]

I think the size modifiers are one of the more elegant parts of d20. I like that being bigger isn't just about more hit points and a higher STR score.