Is the SIZE modifier more trouble than it's worth?

[The_Gneech]

I'd have size modifiers also affect initiative, in the same way it affects attack rolls and AC. Big creatures tend to be far slower than small creatures, but that isn't usually reflected in the rules.

Ooh! Ooh! Good point!

-The Gneech

 

[mmadsen]

Does anyone else think it's a little odd that in D&D, a dragon has a massive attack bonus because it has so many hit dice? Don't you wish it was possible for people to dodge out of the way of dragon attacks? Sure, if you get hit by a massive lizard, you're toast, but if you're fast enough you should be able to dodge. However, because of the way D&D is set up, attack bonuses rise much faster than AC, so at high levels people seldom miss on their first attack.

I agree completely. I want the heroes to dodge the giant's club or the dragon's claw, not take it and ask for more. When a large monster connects, I want it to knock its prey around.

 

[mmadsen]

While not completely off, this can be misleading. A 3 foot tall child is not the same as a 3 foot tall adult. This was discussed a bit ago in another thread (someone was comparing their 3 foot tall child to a halfling). The child doesn't have an adult's muscle structure, and that's very important.

We can take that a step further: How hard is it to grapple and pin a chimpanzee? Basically impossible.

 

[Klaus]

Ah, but the chimpanzee has Improved Grapple and Str 14!

And I'll second the the suggestion made upthread that 5'-adjustments should be based on creature size. They should be equal to reach, maybe (which means Tiny and smaller creatures get no "5-foot-steps", they either take a move action or stay put).

 

[Mark CMG]

Ah, but the chimpanzee has Improved Grapple and Str 14!

And I'll second the the suggestion made upthread that 5'-adjustments should be based on creature size. They should be equal to reach, maybe (which means Tiny and smaller creatures get no "5-foot-steps", they either take a move action or stay put).

I wouldn't tie it to reach since that can be increased without bettering movement, such as a human with a longspear. Changing the 5'-step would likely need to be on a case-by-case basis which might defeat the "simplification" process.

 

[johnsemlak]

While not completely off, this can be misleading. A 3 foot tall child is not the same as a 3 foot tall adult. This was discussed a bit ago in another thread (someone was comparing their 3 foot tall child to a halfling). The child doesn't have an adult's muscle structure, and that's very important.

A better example would be the cunning midget sidekick-villian from the Bond film Man with the Golden Gun. the character was awefully dangerous when armed with a knife. Still ended up in a suitcase though

 

[Voadam]

I hate how I can't easily find everything that goes with size. I remember the grapple +4 but don't remember about bull rushes, trips, and other maneuvers. I know it affects hide but is the modifier for large -1 like the AC and attacks or -4 similar to the grapple modifier number? What other skills does it impact. Why not reflexes? Gargantuan dragons can dodge a lightning bolt as easily as a small one? Better because they have more HD? It is just one more thing to keep track of that slows things down if I have to look up the specifics.

 

[Particle_Man]

A better example would be the cunning midget sidekick-villian from the Bond film Man with the Golden Gun. the character was awefully dangerous when armed with a knife. Still ended up in a suitcase though

And let us not forget Mini-Me beating the living crap out of Austen Powers in the second movie.

 

[gizmo33]

However, doesn't the fact that the hill giant has a +14 bonus to Strength compared to the halfling's -2 modifier to Strength already give a rather large swing towards the giant?

IMO there are two kinds of strength, "overall strength" and "strength related to size". I think DnD does a poor job in simulating the second one. I actually feel the opposite that MerricB does on this issue - I think that strength should be defined such that both hill giants and humans have an average score of 10, so that jump, climb, and attack rolls aren't strangely skewed. Granted, the rules would need an overhaul, with possibly "armor as damage reduction" rules added to make complete sense out of this. But I don't see the reason that a hill giant is orders of magnitude better at climbing than a human other than DnD doesn't perfectly differentiate the two categories of climbing. Climbing, IMO is in the second category and DnD puts it in the first.

A halfing has (after rounding to the nearest millionth place) about a 0% chance of pinning a hill giant. I think that anything short of a +20 differential between the world's strongest halfling and world's weakest hill giant is an undesirable result.

MerricB, what are you suggesting the outcome of a hill giant vs. halfling match be?

 

[danzig138]

I have to say, I haven't encountered any problems with the size modifier in play or in stat blocks yet. I like it. it makes sense to me, above and beyond what ability scores might bring. Like with Grapple, If you have a halfing and a hill giant, bot of whom happen tp somehow have Strength scores of 16, seems to me like the giant should have an edge in the grappling department. Altough the halfling grappling the crap out of the giant's ankle is a funny picture in my head.