Is the War Over?

[Wisdom Penalty]

So, regardless of whether you're for 4e or for 3e or for C&C or for PF, I think most of us would agree that there last few months, in particular, have been ugly ones for EN World and the segment of the D&D community represented by the folks that frequent this site.

There are a number of people - I'll won't comment on whether it's a significant number or not, but it's certainly a passionate and vocal one - that are upset with the direction WotC went with 4e.

Some of these folks likely hoped their complaints and questions would influence the end product by bringing it more in line with what they believe would be a better game.

Some of these folks likely were upset with the perception that their current gaming books would potentially become obsolete, and that official WotC support would be moving on without them.

Some of these folks, doubtless, dislike change for change's sake and/or simply like to complain. (This last group, for what it's worth, I believe is a definite minority.)

Nonetheless, 4e did arrive as advertised. Love it or hate it, like it or loathe it, it's here. The inevitable has occurred, per the definition of the word 'inevitable'.

The war may not have been "won" by anyone, nor "lost" by anyone, but...is it too hopeful that the war can be declared Over?

Can those that have decided to move forward with 4e be left in peace?

Can those that decided to remain behind, or move to a different system, cease their complaints against a ruleset that no longer applies to them?

Can those that have decided to stay with 3.5 (or embrace PF RPG, or something else) be left in peace?

Can those that have decided to abandon 3.5 cease their complaints against a ruleset that no longer applies to them?

More generally, and more to the point, can the incessant polls and proclamations of folks for or against 4e fade away now that their relevancy has been somewhat muted?

I, for one, would like to see EN World start talking more about gaming and less about sales figures. And I fully understand I have been part of the "problem" these past months, as I'm often quick to throw in my worthless two cents whenever baited by (what I perceive as) excessively bitter or valueless posts (typically made by the same cadre of people).

It will end - this strife and bickering. But how long, I ask you, until it ends? Am I being too optimistic when I state that I believe the roughest waters have passed? Am I foolish to actually assume that the train has pulled out the station and, therefore, there's no longer a need to argue about how or when it will arrive?

In the immortal words of Rodney King, slightly paraphrased - "When can we just all get along (again)?"

Are talking days, weeks, months, or years? Are we talking Now, or are we talking when 5E is released (assuming it is a system embraced universally, I suppose)?

Wis

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The war is not over until one side has been eradicated.
Remember "fan" is short for "fanatic". We'll fight to the bitter end, and will only stop if we prevail against our foes!



On a more serious note, I don't think anyone will be able to "proclaim" the end of the war. I think it will just naturally lose steam. People that play it will return to talk about their experiences and problems, and will lose interest in defending their system of choice.
Heck, I haven't run a "real" session with self-made characters of 4E yet! I am eager to run KotS for my players since weeks. The number of people that already have started their fully fledged 4E campaigns can't be that high, so we're naturally discussing a lot of "theoretical" or fundamental stuff, that will probably not matter much once we're involved in the actual gameplay.

Once game-play experience is abound, the Edition Wars will matter less, and people will go back to rules question and typical DMing issues, or discussing the latest DDI article and eventually WotC source books.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The war may not have been "won" by anyone, nor "lost" by anyone, but...is it too hopeful that the war can be declared Over?

I'll answer this with a comparison.

In 3e, monks were core.

A lot of people found this blatantly unacceptable.

They never stopped complaining about it when the topic came up (just before the 4e announcement I think there was a thread here that had that old argument).

In 4e, monks are not core.

If the people who don't like things just shut up, they won't change those things for 5e, or 4.75e, or PHB10. Or whatever.

Right now, these are still salient discussion points, especially since the game is all new and shiny.

Just because people have made up their minds doesn't mean that new people who are still open can't be persuaded, and it doesn't mean that WotC and 3rd party designers aren't listening to the chatter for what the audience might think of their own products, and it doesn't mean that 4e won't change through these efforts, or that Modern 2e won't address some of these concerns.

The best thing that can be done to the people you don't agree with that you're tired of arguing with is to not respond to them. They still have a right to point it out, and you have a right to respond, but the first person to shut up about it is the one who makes it sink farther off the front page.

 

[Papa-DRB]

Can those that have decided to move forward with 4e be left in peace?

Can those that decided to remain behind, or move to a different system, cease their complaints against a ruleset that no longer applies to them?

Wis

Can those that have decided to stay with 3.5 (or embrace PF RPG, or something else) be left in peace?

Can those that have decided to abandon the system, cease their complaints against a ruleset that no longer applies to them?

(I guess my perspective is allowed to be equally as snarky as yours).

-- david
Papa.DRB

And I'm *not* a 4E hater, just ambivalent. I don't want to change systems this late in my life, and I am happy where I am.

 

[Cevalic]

Im going to guess it will never be over. I'm sure the arguing will die down, but there will be the occasional flare ups. I think alot of people feel burned by Wizards about 4th edition, and will bring it up from time to time (and deservedly so). I also think that there are people that for some reason have to give people crap for not coming on board of the new edition.

As Stone Cold once said: It will never be over Bret. Never. Not until your pink and black ass goes back to Calgary where you belong.

No Calgary here. Maybe 5th edition will be able to bring some people back on board when it comes out, but it is definately safe to say that Wizards fractured their fanbase.

 

[Wisdom Penalty]

Can those that have decided to stay with 3.5 (or embrace PF RPG) be left in peace?

Can those that have decided to abandon the system, cease their complaints against a ruleset that no longer applies to them?

(I guess my perspective is allowed to be equally as snarky as yours).

-- david
Papa.DRB

And I'm *not* a 4E hater, just ambivalent. I don't want to change systems this late in my life, and I am happy where I am.

You won't find me, as far as I can recall, saying a bad thing about either of those systems. It's like talking about an ex-girlfriend - nothing good can come of it, and few folks really care.

So, I guess I'm saying - Yes. An emphatic yes. I will let those who choose to play different systems do so in peace. I am Wisdom Penalty; hear me roar.

Let's hope for some reciprocity, eh?

Wis

 

[Wisdom Penalty]

As Stone Cold once said: It will never be over Bret. Never. Not until your pink and black ass goes back to Calgary where you belong.

Dude, that's awesome. In my system, any time a WWF anecdote can be used in a discussion, the poster gains +2d6 cool points.

 

[hewligan]

You see, I am sitting here with the 4e PHB beside me, trying to digest it. I think I am at least a bit open minded, although due to incredible time constraints in my life, I almost certainly have to stay with 3.5e or similar as properly learning a new system (I GM) is just not possible. But still, I found Wisdom Penalty's post to be so heavily snarky and biased as to actually just be a veiled continuation of the "war". Papa-DRB probably says it best when he made the counter response. In short - the war won't be over until people stop creating threads that are thinly veiled jabs at the "opposition".

Personally, I am quite happy to have 20, 30, 40 good RPG games co-exist. I GM online, and thus use the entire world as a potential player source. I have no fear that I will be unable to find plenty of players for my 3.5e games for as long as I continue to want to run them. It isn't a war to me - just a lot of people who have become a bit frisky and entrenched over ... a ... GAME.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Can those that have decided to stay with 3.5 (or embrace PF RPG) be left in peace?

Can those that have decided to abandon the system, cease their complaints against a ruleset that no longer applies to them?

(I guess my perspective is allowed to be equally as snarky as yours).

-- david
Papa.DRB

And I'm *not* a 4E hater, just ambivalent. I don't want to change systems this late in my life, and I am happy where I am.

I am not reading many threads about "3E is not video-gamey enough" or "3E is all about simulation, where's the fun gameplay". All critic at 3E now is usually found in threads regarding 4E. And this naturally means that people interested in 4E will read that. Including those that like it and now have to defend it. Usually doing this by attacking 3E. Which again motivates those that like or even prefer 3E to defend themselves, too. Creating a vicious cycle of critic.

This will only stop if people have finally accepted the following things.
- There is a new edition. And there are a lot of people that like it.
- There are other games and editions. There are a lot of people that like it.
- You can pick whatever edition or game you prefer. You don't have to defend your choice or preferences.

But we aren't there yet. Heck, I am afraid I'm not there yet, because I still feel the need to defend myself if someone says 4E is a board game or video-game, because it feels as if someone is telling me I am not a role-player (any more), and I percieve this as a kind of insult.

(But really, why do I do that? I mean, okay, maybe someone sees me only as a board-gamer, or as a video-gamer, or something like that? How could I be a lesser man for this? Is someone that likes boiling hot water in his shower a lesser man that likes ice cold water? Is someone that likes Tennis better or worse then someone that likes Badminton?
Us role-players are a strange beast...)

 

[Wisdom Penalty]

...But still, I found Wisdom Penalty's post to be so heavily snarky and biased as to actually just be a veiled continuation of the "war"...

OK, I added Papa's two questions/quotes to my OP when he said he was being as equally snarky as me. Hopefully that makes it more of an even request, instead of some veiled attempt to continue the war.

Wis