Is there a better thought out book than Savage Species?

[Dannyalcatraz]

I think the idea behind the WotC design theory is that combat is combat, but critters with strong inherent abilities must put in the same amount of practice to master their innate abilities as spellcasters do with their arcane or divine studies.

But you could try this- adopt the Arcana Unearthed/Arcana Evolved approach to monster classes.

The system there is very similar to Savage Species, but there is one crucial difference: in AU/AE, a "monster" starts off with some weak-ish initial stats in its LA +0 form, just like Savage Species...but in AU/AE, it doesn't EVER have to take a single level in its monster class.

(For those who don't know or recall, in Savage Species, a monster PC must take all of its available monster levels before taking a PC class level.)

This would let you have a 5th level Succubus with 10 Sorcerer levels, or 7Succ/8Sorc or whatever.

 

[Klaus]

Actually, you're referring to Arcana Evolved's racial levels, which were introduced to DnD in Unearthed Arcana, as Racial Paragon Levels. Different Things.

 

[Ovistavin]

Like Rakshasa + Sorcerer or Nymph + Druid.

Dragons and Mindflayers fit this as well.

 

[shilsen]

Dragons and Mindflayers fit this as well.

Mindflayers don't have any innate spellcasting ability.

 

[Vargo]

Mindflayers don't have any innate spellcasting ability.

Although I don't have my books handy right now, don't they have the abilities of an 8th level sorceror or 8th level psion, depending on the source?

 

[RisnDevil]

There is a "thematic" problem with what you want though. Most classes with these innate abilities, like your succubus, aren't actually spellcasters, even though that would almost seem like what they are. They don't study or practice at their magic, it is innate. So you want a way to make them stronger, and better "spellcasters?" Advance their HD. This can/will increase current abilities, and gives you room to give them new ones.

And yes, your problem really lies in the multi-classing rules, especially in regards to casters. Then again, I think it is ok considering how unbalanced the system if FOR spellcasters (straight spellcaster variety) in high and epic levels.

 

[WarlockLord]

Although I don't have my books handy right now, don't they have the abilities of an 8th level sorceror or 8th level psion, depending on the source?

9th level psion.

 

[Deset Gled]

Just about 100% of the time, it is NEVER worth giving ANY levels of spell caster to ANY monster EVER. The only time giving spell caster levels to a monster is if your not trying to get 'spell caster' levels, but cheesy combat tricks like true strike, mage armor, or protection from X.

That isn't a caster, that is a melee monster which is abusing low level magic spells.

So, basically what you're asking for is a character that has a complete spell caster progression, extra HD, large ability score adjustments, and various special racial abilities including bonus feats, skill bonuses, supernatural abilities, and different movement modes/rates. And your complaint is that the character creation rules don't let you do that without a level adjustment.

It sounds to me like what you really need is a set of racial progession levels that are spread out longer, and include caster levels and extra HD as part of the progression. I think this is a lovely idea, but it's also the kind of thing that you will need to sit down and work out on a creature by creature (and caster by caster) basis. There is no way you are going to be able to create a standard set of rules for this that are balanced for the extremely wide varienty of monster and casters in DnD books.

 

[Moonstone Spider]

Not at all. A Pixie Sorcerer 10 is way better than a Human Sorcerer 10.

The +4 Charisma is nice for a sorcerer but a Savage Species Pixie is 5 ECL when it finishes it's Monstrous Levels.

A human Sorcerer 10 has 6/6/6/6/5/3 spells per day and knows. The Pixie's spells per day are 6/6/4. The Human has access to 5th level spells, the Pixie gets second level spells. The pixie's Cha will get it perhaps 1 or two more spells per day of the ones it knows but that doesn't begin to add up to the huge spell advantage the human has.

I'm not seeing the pixie superiority here.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

What you seem to be looking for FunElemental! is a patch houserule to deal with the caster level issue. If you're the dm and the players don't mind you could just say the caster level now equals HD. That's what I did and there aint many probs.