D&D (2024) Is There A New Sheriff in Town?

[EzekielRaiden]

It’s a survey across a sample of North American hobby stores. I don’t know what algorithm they apply to the responses. But it’s not sales figures. It’s possible that the #3 thing on one store’s list sells more than the #1 thing on another but that level of detail isn’t provided.

Ooh, so it's super vulnerable to things like Simpson's "paradox". That is, the situation where treatment A does better with low-severity patients, and treatment A does better with high-severity patients, but when combined all together, treatment B does better overall. Not saying that this definitely 100% guaranteed happened--but this kind of thing is a perennial problem when you aggregate data that obfuscates the underlying source data.

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

Incidentally people who have seen the internal numbers at both companies claim Pathfinder never outsold 4e:

Pathfinder Never Outsold 4E D&D (ICYMI)

The myth that Paizo's Pathfinder outsold Dungeons & Dragons 4E endures, but it is a myth worth slaying.

alphastream.org

 

[mamba]

Incidentally people who have seen the internal numbers at both companies claim Pathfinder never outsold 4e:

I am not sure how much I trust one person speaking for the whole duration when they worked ‘at both companies during different parts of the 4E era.’, which even leaves room for parts of that era where they worked for neither

Not saying PF outsold 4e, just that I do not see them as the authority that settled this for good

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

I am not sure how much I trust one person speaking for the whole duration when they worked ‘at both companies during different parts of the 4E era.’, which even leaves room for parts of that era where they worked for neither

Not saying PF outsold 4e, just that I do not see them as the authority that settled this for good

I'd take it, given Owen's added input.

 

[soviet]

I am not sure how much I trust one person speaking for the whole duration when they worked ‘at both companies during different parts of the 4E era.’, which even leaves room for parts of that era where they worked for neither

Not saying PF outsold 4e, just that I do not see them as the authority that settled this for good

I don't think anyone is saying it's authoritative. But we already have only very questionable evidence that Pathfinder ever outsold 4e. The fact that the people behind Pathfinder, and the people who have some level of inside knowledge, also haven't made that claim is further circumstantial evidence that it didn't happen.

 

[Staffan]

I am not sure how much I trust one person speaking for the whole duration when they worked ‘at both companies during different parts of the 4E era.’, which even leaves room for parts of that era where they worked for neither

Not saying PF outsold 4e, just that I do not see them as the authority that settled this for good

The Twitter thread referred to in the Alphastream article has two people providing a fair bit of information and background, though no hard numbers. They also have two others weighing in and saying "Yeah, that's about it." So that's a total of four people with the information to know who says PF didn't outsell 4e. I will admit it still leaves a window open that PF outsold 4e in narrow windows, but 4e in total definitely outsold PF1 in total (at least up to 2014).

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I don’t know what the point of arguing about it is, neither D&D nor Pathfinder were doing particularly well at the time, with little cultural cache and weak sales.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I still don't get why some people feel it is so important to think that "Pathfinder outsold D&D" or that "Daggerheart will surpass D&D" that they'll go through all this effort to try and claim/prove it.

If (general) you have such an issue with the idea that a game you do not like is the more popular game than the game you do... that says more about (general) you than it does the games themselves.

 

[mamba]

I will admit it still leaves a window open that PF outsold 4e in narrow windows, but 4e in total definitely outsold PF1 in total (at least up to 2014).

I don't think anyone claimed PF outsold 4e in total, the most was that it did so for some quarters.

Pretty sure that PF did not outsell 4e in total (at least for the time they both existed in parallel), the odds seem to be against PF having done so even for a few quarters. I'd still prefer something more definitive than what we have...

 

[Morrus]

I still don't get why some people feel it is so important to think that "Pathfinder outsold D&D" or that "Daggerheart will surpass D&D" that they'll go through all this effort to try and claim/prove it.

If (general) you have such an issue with the idea that a game you do not like is the more popular game than the game you do... that says more about (general) you than it does the games themselves.

Also see Apple/Android, Marvel/DC, and any other pop culture or product pairing.