D&D (2024) Is There A New Sheriff in Town?

How long has it been out, like a month or something? I guess we will find something out next convention season if I see several slots filled with this game. I do not see it, but who knows.

I feel the only thing which can kill D&D is D&D
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Not sure which one fits better in the analogy, American Ninja or Platoon.
 

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Perhaps. As I said they would have some meaningful overlap, but if Daggerheart can be picked up easily, but still scratch that crunchy itch (and it seems to) why stick with 5e?

Full Disclosure: 5e lost me some time ago, and the settings can easily be done in other systems once you file off some serial numbers.
Or at your own table via homebrew if needed. No filing necessary.
 


I can imagine a possible future where the market is highly split. D&D is the big name in the world of VTT and digital space, and Daggerheart (or something else) is the big name in "narrative" play and media (streaming gameplay, etc). In this future, we as hobbyists all spend way too much time arguing over what the term "TTRPG" means in the year 20XX.
So the faultlines would be?
• D&D ≈ digital (and videogames)
• Daggerheart ≈ tabletop (and shows)

Really?

D&D would be the one with digital dominance? That would be surprising in light of the mixed history of D&D efforts into digital products. Also, D&D mechanics tend to be odd for a videogame. D&D videogames are more about settings. I would be surprised if D&D lost its tabletop dominance.

Where Daggerheart originates from social media, including YouTube, I would be unsurprised if they came out with a successful videogame.


Besides, both Daggerheart and D&D are able to adapt to any environment, whether tabletop, digital, shows, or videogames.
 


So the faultlines would be?
• D&D ≈ digital (and videogames)
• Daggerheart ≈ tabletop (and shows)

Really?

D&D would be the one with digital dominance?

My main thesis was that there is a potential split between the VTT market and the rest of the tabletop market. This is a shift that we are already starting to see. For example, you'll generally find that people using a VTT are much more likely to track encumbrance than those in a pen-and-paper game. As time goes on, I think it is very likely that this gap will become more and more noticeable. Eventually, I think it's possible we will see games that are optimized for VTT play, and different games that are optimized for in-person play.

As for the specifics, I named D&D because it's the obvious monolith in the market. And, to your point that they make active attempts to follow financial trends, WotC has made multiple announcements over the last few years that they want to work as much as possible on digital content and VTTs. They have backed these statements up with investments in DNDBeyond. Frankly, it's a business path they've wanted to be on since 4e, and they haven't been shy about it. Their success in digital obviously isn't as monolithic as the success of D&D as a brand, but their intent is fairly clear.

Before Daggerheart, I would have named either an OSR game or a PbtA game as a possible candidate for the group that could come to dominance by challenging the D&D VTT side of the TTRPG market with more story-based play. Both have vocal contingents that are opposed to VTTs. But, as time goes by I think the OSR may lose some steam as a core section of their market dies (literally), and I've always suspected that the number of people playing PtbA games is overestimated by it's fans. Bringing in the names it has behind it, Daggerheart very well could be the game that comes to challenge VTT space.

Also, y'know, Daggerheart is kinda the game that this thread is about, so... yeah. Seemed like talking about it vs D&D was topical. And it's all hypothetical; I ain't investing my 401k on this pile of possiblys.
 

My main thesis was that there is a potential split between the VTT market and the rest of the tabletop market. This is a shift that we are already starting to see. For example, you'll generally find that people using a VTT are much more likely to track encumbrance than those in a pen-and-paper game. As time goes on, I think it is very likely that this gap will become more and more noticeable. Eventually, I think it's possible we will see games that are optimized for VTT play, and different games that are optimized for in-person play.
I would care about encumbrance if it tracked Size instead of guess-the-weight.

Maybe:
• Three Tinies = one Small.
• Three Smalls = one Medium.
• Three Mediums = one Large.
Etcetera. A satchel is Tiny container, including its content.

A Medium creature can carry one Size smaller without any encumbrance. Two Smalls require a check. Perhaps carrying three Smalls or one Medium is automatically encumbered.

Heh, special items like gold being surprisingly heavy, can have special rules, which I would then probably ignore.

Rules that are conceptually clear and mechanically simple (and that dont require guess-the-weight or tedious bookkeeping). Something like that.

As for the specifics, I named D&D because it's the obvious monolith in the market. And, to your point that they make active attempts to follow financial trends, WotC has made multiple announcements over the last few years that they want to work as much as possible on digital content and VTTs. They have backed these statements up with investments in DNDBeyond. Frankly, it's a business path they've wanted to be on since 4e, and they haven't been shy about it. Their success in digital obviously isn't as monolithic as the success of D&D as a brand, but their intent is fairly clear.
DnDBeyond seems to be doing well. I am glad about that.

At the same time, WotC made efforts into other digital tabletop products that did less well.

Before Daggerheart, I would have named either an OSR game or a PbtA game as a possible candidate for the group that could come to dominance by challenging the D&D VTT side of the TTRPG market with more story-based play. Both have vocal contingents that are opposed to VTTs. But, as time goes by I think the OSR may lose some steam as a core section of their market dies (literally), and I've always suspected that the number of people playing PtbA games is overestimated by it's fans. Bringing in the names it has behind it, Daggerheart very well could be the game that comes to challenge VTT space.
Future D&D, including Daggerheart, will continue to mine old school for inspirations (just like 5e does). Old school is a valuable resource, a treasure of ideas. But old school in its own right, that era has passed.

Also, y'know, Daggerheart is kinda the game that this thread is about, so... yeah. Seemed like talking about it vs D&D was topical. And it's all hypothetical; I ain't investing my 401k on this pile of possiblys.
To me, Daggerheart looks more like an edition of D&D.

I agree, future technologies will soon change the nature of gaming. We will see how WotC and various indies adapt to the new environments.
 

Frankly Daggerheart feels like "Theater Kid". D&D

It's kinda like freeform roleplaying with minor mechanics to determine success and failure.

People who like power gaming and dealing with mechanical choice would hate it.
People who like their mechanical choices to be heavily entwined with their narrative control would hate it
People who prefer that the mechanics are closer to the simulation of the game world that they are role-playing in what hate it.

So on jump there is huge groups of D&D fans who straight up would either not like Daggerheart or get bored with it quickly because Daggerheart does not put emphasis on that kind of gameplay. That limits the amount of broad audience that they could bring in in order to topple D&D.

Then you have my prediction of drawback if Darrington Press even tried to take down D&D with this game. If Darrington Press plans to make the amount of money required to topple DND they will have to do some of the same tactics and strategies that Wizards attempted through out the third and fourth edition. As well as grow to the point that they would have to hire some of the kinds of people that create the scandals that Wizards has to deal with.

Or in layman's terms in order for Daggerheart to topple D&D Darrington press would have to be as corporate as at least Wizards of the Coast and that leaves them up to being in a position where they have as many scandals as with this of the coast.

You can't be number one without getting the scandals of number one and I don't think the people over there want that.
 
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I mean the assumption is that the people who left have more fans than detractors.

Personally I've not been a huge fan of Chris Perkins work* or the direction 5.24 went so it doesn't sway me one way or the other.

RPG writer who consistently would get me to buy a product. Graeme Morris or Jennell Jaquays.

*dude gave us 5e Spelljammer, a complete train wreck.
 

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