D&D (2024) Is There A New Sheriff in Town?

[Theory of Games]

Hm. Crawford & Perkins have some very strong credentials when it comes to ttrpg design. They might be thinking of creating an entirely different ttrpg that combines the best elements of D&D and DH. Or, they could touch-up DH making it more interesting to the D&D playerbase. Maybe both. Whatever happens I'm here for it.

There's a reckoning on the horizon: Shadowdark and Daggerheart are rising. Draw Steel, Cosmere and Dungeon World 2e are coming. D&D 5.5 could literally be the last edition that isn't 100% digital and knowing how people in this hobby love books vs. PDFs, that might open the door for a new Fantasy ttrpg champion.

The hobby has never been about overt competition, but with the ttrpg industry's valuation expanding into the billions, it only makes sense that everyone's scrambling to get as much as they can.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Frankly Daggerheart feels like "Theater Kid". D&D

It's kinda like freeform roleplaying with minor mechanics to determine success and failure.

People who like power gaming and dealing with mechanical choice would hate it.
People who like their mechanical choices to be heavily entwined with their narrative control would hate it
People who prefer that the mechanics are closer to the simulation of the game world that they are role-playing in what hate it.

So on jump there is huge groups of D&D fans who straight up would either not like Daggerheart or get bored with it quickly because Daggerheart does not put emphasis on that kind of gameplay. That limits the amount of broad audience that they could bring in in order to topple D&D.

Then you have my prediction of drawback if Darrington Press even tried to take down D&D with this game. If Darrington Press plans to make the amount of money required to topple DND they will have to do some of the same tactics and strategies that Wizards attempted through out the third and fourth edition. As well as grow to the point that they would have to hire some of the kinds of people that create the scandals that Wizards has to deal with.

Or in layman's terms in order for Daggerheart to topple D&D Darrington press would have to be as corporate as at least Wizards of the Coast and that leaves them up to being in a position where they have as many scandals as with this of the coast.

You can't be number one without getting the scandals of number one and I don't think the people over there want that.

Agreed. Best to avoid that temptation altogether. I think it's a shame that we have a "#1" like Hasbro/WotC at all. That degree of influence over the hobby space IMO is not a good thing.

 

[Minigiant]

Agreed. Best to avoid that temptation altogether. I think it's a shame that we have a "#1" like Hasbro/WotC at all. That degree of influence over the hobby space IMO is not a good thing.

Especially since they will 100% would dive into drama and scandal to do so,
Becoming #1, means massively increasing your staff and corporatization.
Hell, Being #2 means it as well. Paizo wasn't scandal free for its whole existence.

If TTRPG becomes a billion dollar industry, the top 3 will be big. We are kinda lucky TTRPGs only has one big garbage corp.

It could be like video games and have a dozen of them.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

For the love of God, I hope so.

It might force D&D to actually ask important questions of itself. Like whether or not the traditions it stubbornly clings to no matter what, are actually productive or not.

 

[Yaarel]

Hm. Crawford & Perkins have some very strong credentials when it comes to ttrpg design. They might be thinking of creating an entirely different ttrpg that combines the best elements of D&D and DH. Or, they could touch-up DH making it more interesting to the D&D playerbase. Maybe both. Whatever happens I'm here for it.

Yeah, I am curious how future Darrington Press projects will develop.

There's a reckoning on the horizon: Shadowdark and Daggerheart are rising. Draw Steel, Cosmere and Dungeon World 2e are coming. D&D 5.5 could literally be the last edition that isn't 100% digital and knowing how people in this hobby love books vs. PDFs, that might open the door for a new Fantasy ttrpg champion.

I am pretty sure D&D will retain the tabletop dominance. For me the coming technologies are the uncertainty.

WotC avoids pdfs. But it does have the SRD for 5e 2024. It is reasonably comprehensive, and can serve as a 'rules light' version of D&D. For 3e, I only used the 3e SRD, and no other books, except for the Expanded Psionic Handbook. For 5e gaming, I tend to use DnDBeyond for quick reference. (While having books, I mostly peruse them for projects.) The DnDBeyond core rules are comprehensive, the homebrew features are good. It has a decent balance of free and pay.

The hobby has never been about overt competition, but with the ttrpg industry's valuation expanding into the billions, it only makes sense that everyone's scrambling to get as much as they can.

The "rising tide floats all ships" works here too. If Darrington Press sells a D&D 5e setting, invested players would still buy future WotC splatbooks for 5e.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

D&D 5e isn’t declining, and everyone who picks up DH because of CR is already familiar with D&D 5e, so…no.

And frankly, I doubt very much that a significant portion of D&D fans were, in fact, “awaiting innovative changes that never came”. The alt covers sold out fast and the normal versions are selling like hotcakes. People mostly like the new core.

Now I do think that people saying that more people want a “game” not a “collaborative storytelling experience” are completely wrong on every level, but that doesn’t mean that DH will overtake D&D. I do think they will beat out ToTV, Draw Steel, etc, and may overtake Pathfinder, but D&D will remain the flagship of the industry.

-aside-

People want storytelling games, and Daggerheart is very much a game. People want to make the OC, and tell their special story. People want to be able to give something up to save their OC, or to get the job done, they want to be able to decide how their OC dies if they must die, etc.

 

[Scribe]

For the love of God, I hope so.

It might force D&D to actually ask important questions of itself. Like whether or not the traditions it stubbornly clings to no matter what, are actually productive or not.

Personally I hope it doesn't. Let it remain true to what D&D is, there are factually viable alternatives to be played.

 

[Minigiant]

Now I do think that people saying that more people want a “game” not a “collaborative storytelling experience” are completely wrong on every level, but that doesn’t mean that DH will overtake D&D. I do think they will beat out ToTV, Draw Steel, etc, and may overtake Pathfinder, but D&D will remain the flagship of the industry.

-aside-

People want storytelling games, and Daggerheart is very much a game.

Yup. DH is a game. It's heavy narrative game but still a game.

The issue is it's game is very different. Flavor isn't mechanical and the question is if many D&D fans will like that..

In D&D, a STR heavy weapons user, a DEX dual wielder, and a CHA based bladelock play and feel different. In DH, they don't really.

So the question is if what percentage of TTRPG fans will get bored of that without awesome DMing.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yup. DH is a game. It's heavy narrative game but still a game.

The issue is it's game is very different. Flavor isn't mechanical and the question is if many D&D fans will like that..

In D&D, a STR heavy weapons user, a DEX dual wielder, and a CHA based bladelock play and feel different. In DH, they don't really.

So the question is if what percentage of TTRPG fans will get bored of that without awesome DMing.

Huh, what I’ve seen seems like those archetypes playing pretty differently.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

For the love of God, I hope so.

It might force D&D to actually ask important questions of itself. Like whether or not the traditions it stubbornly clings to no matter what, are actually productive or not.

Those traditions have endured countless other new and innovative games entering the market with new ways to play. I don't think this time will be different.