log in or register to remove this ad

 

D&D General Is there an increase in "godless" campaign settings?


log in or register to remove this ad

hopeless

Adventurer
That depends on how much detail your GM/DM is willing to go into when developing this.
I think I was the only one to actually bother coming up with a new deity then trying to develop it!
 

Mirtek

Hero
you want people merging with hell? that sounds unethical and super depressing, also what faith is like that?
Hell, all of the lower planes actually, are not a punishment in D&D. At least not intentionally.

The planes merely collect likeminded people so that in death they can continue to further the principles they followed while alive.

If you chose to live a LE live, you are send where you can continue to further LE's pull on the cosmos

Evil, Law, Good and Chaos are the four principle forces pulling on creation trying to etablish their dominance and there's no higher authority that can declare any of them being wrong. From a cosmic point of view all existance being consumed by evil is as valid as all existance being consumed by good.

There's no higher power that "condems" people to the lower planes for being evil, merely evil pulling all it's assessts together to strengthen itself. That those assessts make it misserable for each other is just them being dicks about it. Hell is other people is the most literal truth in D&D ;)
 

Hell, all of the lower planes actually, are not a punishment in D&D. At least not intentionally.

The planes merely collect likeminded people so that in death they can continue to further the principles they followed while alive.

If you chose to live a LE live, you are send where you can continue to further LE's pull on the cosmos

Evil, Law, Good and Chaos are the four principle forces pulling on creation trying to etablish their dominance and there's no higher authority that can declare any of them being wrong. From a cosmic point of view all existance being consumed by evil is as valid as all existance being consumed by good.

There's no higher power that "condems" people to the lower planes for being evil, merely evil pulling all it's assessts together to strengthen itself. That those assessts make it misserable for each other is just them being dicks about it. Hell is other people is the most literal truth in D&D ;)
and that is still a bad thing millions die in the blood war instead of being the evil accountant they wish to be.
 

Hell, all of the lower planes actually, are not a punishment in D&D. At least not intentionally.

The planes merely collect likeminded people so that in death they can continue to further the principles they followed while alive.
A great example of how muddied the default D&D cosmology is.

"Your punishment is ... um, getting supernatural powers and being able to do even worse things for eternity."
 


That's only if you're lucky. If you're not, you end up as an eternal slave to some jack-booted tyrant, or as fiend food.
Don't all of the evil cosmologies have the prospect for rebirth and possible later ascension? I thought lemures and the like eventually reform and get another chance to work their way up to pit fiend.
 



Mirtek

Hero
A great example of how muddied the default D&D cosmology is.

"Your punishment is ... um, getting supernatural powers and being able to do even worse things for eternity."
That's the point. It is not supposed to be a punishment. Good hasn't any higher authority than Evil or Law or Chaos.

Good may claim to judge and condemn people, but there's no cosmic truth behind it. It's just Good being too full of itself.

No overreaching authority stated that all should be good and then created the lower planes to punish those who sinned.

Just the four principle alignments entering reality from four different corners and immediately trying to pull everything into their corner.
 

Mirtek

Hero
Don't all of the evil cosmologies have the prospect for rebirth and possible later ascension? I thought lemures and the like eventually reform and get another chance to work their way up to pit fiend.
Theoretically any lemure could become the next lord of nessus, pratically most will never advance very far.

And while they are on the bottom, anyone above them is being a dick to them.

Likewise on Celestia it's not that different in regards to advancement, but everybody above you is comoassionate and helpful toward you.
 


That's the point. It is not supposed to be a punishment. Good hasn't any higher authority than Evil or Law or Chaos.
Except that lots of the fiction of the game, both homebrew and from TSR/WotC, depicts people being "condemned" to Hell or the Abyss. And since that's patently untrue, either all the "good" religions of the game are lying to their worshipers -- which is a pretty big revelation -- or this was unintentional on the parts of at least some of the writers.

I honestly think you've probably thought this through more than most of the designers.
 

Theoretically any lemure could become the next lord of nessus, pratically most will never advance very far.

And while they are on the bottom, anyone above them is being a dick to them.
So, sort of like life, then.

Humans spend their entire lives seeking goals they will never reach. Most of them don't view it as a futile chore or something to resent.

"One day, I'll be a millionaire!" "All I need is one big break!" "This next boss will see all I have to offer!"
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
Except that lots of the fiction of the game, both homebrew and from TSR/WotC, depicts people being "condemned" to Hell or the Abyss. And since that's patently untrue, either all the "good" religions of the game are lying to their worshipers -- which is a pretty big revelation -- or this was unintentional on the parts of at least some of the writers.

I honestly think you've probably thought this through more than most of the designers.
It's kind of a bit of both. You're "condemned" to a lower plane, as in not being allowed in an upper plane. Things likely will suck a lot for you because of your deeds. But you may eventually rise to power, after hundreds, thousands, or millions of years.
 

Fanaelialae

Legend
Except that lots of the fiction of the game, both homebrew and from TSR/WotC, depicts people being "condemned" to Hell or the Abyss. And since that's patently untrue, either all the "good" religions of the game are lying to their worshipers -- which is a pretty big revelation -- or this was unintentional on the parts of at least some of the writers.

I honestly think you've probably thought this through more than most of the designers.
Mt Celestia seems like a place most people might enjoy visiting. I don't think you can really say the same for the Abyss.

I mean, sure, there's a small chance in the Abyss that you could rise to the rank of Demon Lord, but that's kind of like being king of the trash heap. You constantly have to watch for other demons (including other Demon Lords) trying to topple you. It doesn't seem like it would be an idyllic existence. Rather one of perpetual strife. Sure, you might be able to escape for a time to the Prime Material, but your essence is tied to the plane. Sooner or later, you'll be killed or banished and then it's right back to the trash heap.
 

Mt Celestia seems like a place most people might enjoy visiting. I don't think you can really say the same for the Abyss.

I mean, sure, there's a small chance in the Abyss that you could rise to the rank of Demon Lord, but that's kind of like being king of the trash heap. You constantly have to watch for other demons (including other Demon Lords) trying to topple you. It doesn't seem like it would be an idyllic existence. Rather one of perpetual strife. Sure, you might be able to escape for a time to the Prime Material, but your essence is tied to the plane. Sooner or later, you'll be killed or banished and then it's right back to the trash heap.
so the lower planes are half punishment half what you would want.
 

Mt Celestia seems like a place most people might enjoy visiting. I don't think you can really say the same for the Abyss.

I mean, sure, there's a small chance in the Abyss that you could rise to the rank of Demon Lord, but that's kind of like being king of the trash heap. You constantly have to watch for other demons (including other Demon Lords) trying to topple you. It doesn't seem like it would be an idyllic existence. Rather one of perpetual strife. Sure, you might be able to escape for a time to the Prime Material, but your essence is tied to the plane. Sooner or later, you'll be killed or banished and then it's right back to the trash heap.
I think if you look at the people most likely going to the Abyss -- look, for instance, at a lot of "edgy" or "tell it like it is" folks on Twitter and YouTube -- I think most of them assume, incorrectly, that they'll be the Demon Prince of Hot Takes within a few weeks. So, from their standpoint, it's not condemnation at all, and I can't imagine that everyone on the Prime Material views it that way.

A Lawful Good church would, of course, say that it's a punishment, but they probably also suggest that Elysium and Bytopia are places to be avoided, too.
 

Fanaelialae

Legend
so the lower planes are half punishment half what you would want.
I see it more as giving you what you think you want while withholding your true desires.

Like an impersonal domain of dread. Strahd is ostensibly the ruler of Barovia. He's immortal and undeniable. His domain is generally safe from his enemies. Every few generations the woman he desires most is reincarnated. It should be his paradise. But instead it's a cage meant to torment him. To dangle happiness within a hair's breadth, only to snatch it away and cast him into despair.

I see the lower planes as serving a similar function, but with a less personalized touch. Perhaps in life you would have done anything for power, because you associated it with security. So in the afterlife you toil and scheme for eons to rise to the rank of Demon Lord, only to find you have an even bigger target on your back. But just enough power that it would be foolish to give it up. So now you are condemned to a life of power without security, at least until someone like you comes along and takes your place.
 

Fanaelialae

Legend
I think if you look at the people most likely going to the Abyss -- look, for instance, at a lot of "edgy" or "tell it like it is" folks on Twitter and YouTube -- I think most of them assume, incorrectly, that they'll be the Demon Prince of Hot Takes within a few weeks. So, from their standpoint, it's not condemnation at all, and I can't imagine that everyone on the Prime Material views it that way.

A Lawful Good church would, of course, say that it's a punishment, but they probably also suggest that Elysium and Bytopia are places to be avoided, too.
But they won't be, which is why it is a punishment. There's nothing worse than getting what you thought you wanted and realizing it isn't all you thought it was cracked up to be.

Granted, that's a valid reason why evil folks might strive for going to the lower planes.
 
Last edited:

Level Up!

An Advertisement

Advertisement4

Top