OSR Is there room in modern gaming for the OSR to bring in new gamers?

[Campbell]

Yup, that’s what I was suggesting before. It’s a space with two parts, a more staid, traditional back to basics view and then this really out there creative side that adds pushing all kinds of crazy elements.

I mean, perhaps that could be the pitch to newer players? “Products to take your imagination to the next level”?

Speaking generally I don't really think there is a need for individual gamers to buy into creative movements. They just have to buy into whatever game they are playing. Like I did not brief the players in my Apocalypse Key games on indie RPGs or even Powered By The Apocalypse. I just pitched them on what I loved about Apocalypse Keys, let them choose playbooks, walked through character creation and just started playing. That other stuff is just art history level stuff to most players.

Same goes for something like Worlds Without Number. The movement stuff does not really matter if I just want to play this game over here.

 

[transmission89]

Speaking generally I don't really think there is a need for individual gamers to buy into creative movements. They just have to buy into whatever game they are playing. Like I did not brief the players in my Apocalypse Key games on indie RPGs or even Powered By The Apocalypse. I just pitched them on what I loved about Apocalypse Keys, let them choose playbooks, walked through character creation and just started playing. That other stuff is just art history level stuff to most players.

Same goes for something like Worlds Without Number. The movement stuff does not really matter if I just want to play this game over here.

Of course. I’m in agreement. I’m just trying to link the concept back to the original premise of the thread, ie, can we create space for OSR games to appeal to new players

 

[Campbell]

Of course. I’m in agreement. I’m just trying to link the concept back to the original premise of the thread, ie, can we create space for OSR games to appeal to new players

I think we totally can. I think Kevin Crawford is already kind of doing it by making sandbox play much more accessible and easier to learn. There's a reason he has 2 games in the top 5 at drivethrurpg. I think Electric Bationland is also already sort of doing it in its slick layout and less baroque rules that still enable skilled play while rewarding taking risks.

I don't think it will ever rival D&D proper, but I think something like Worlds Without Number has the capability of being a solid B Tier game (and might even be there right now).

 

[Fenris-77]

Worlds Without Number has been hovering around the top spot on DTRPG for weeks, with Stars Without Number not far behind. That's an argument closer right there.

 

[Campbell]

I think one key is demystifying the process of play. One thing that Kevin Crawford is really good at is talking about GMing like something doable, providing concrete steps and tools, and being realistic about the process with new GMs. I have seen so many people who had been previously intimidated by running games or especially sandbox games dive in head first and become capable GMs following Crawford's advice. Teaching people how to run games is such a underdeveloped area in most game designs.

I think that was also instrumental in the success of both Apocalypse World and Blades in the Dark. They vastly exceeded the typical reach of the indie space because they taught you how to play and run them without having to read essays.

 

[Emerikol]

Coincidentally enough, when I was asked this question in the interview, this is how I answered:

Q) I don't think there's a right answer to this... but you've mentioned rulings over rules, danger and zero to hero. Is that how you define OSR? Is there an accepted definition?

I don't think there is any "one true way" to define the OSR, because the OSR above all else is meant to emulate the feel and/or mechanics of many games from the 70s/80s. Since there were so many games even then, there is no real way one could define the OSR objectively. That said, I think most fans of the OSR would agree on common themes. Those being rulings over rules, zero to hero, mechanically more lethal of a system, sandbox play, etc. Because gaming was still new back then, and we didn't have the internet where you get an instant answer to a question by the design team, most tables were coming up with stuff on the fly. That fostered a lot of creativity and homebrew. Players were encouraged to come up with their own stuff. I know this is anecdotal, but it seems that there are fewer GMs today who are creating their own game worlds and adventures than in the 80s, where nearly everyone I met was doing that.

So not the best answer, but at least I mentioned how there isn't any one true way of defining it, which I think is the important part.

This is actually a pretty good answer though I'd add "skilled play" as it's known in most OSR games to that mix. Otherwise I think you hit the broad categories.

 

[Blue Orange]

So I think I'm the author of the original post the OP is referring to, and I'd like to apologize.

I'm an almost-grognard (played in the late 80s...you have to have played in the 70s from what I understand), started playing 5e after a long hiatus and my prior experience was with 1e video games (THE MONSTERS REJOICE, FOR THE PARTY HAS BEEN DESTROYED!) and OD&D. I was rather amused that I could get back all my hitpoints after less than a full day's rest and that spectres drained my maximum hitpoints temporarily instead of permanently draining two levels. But, on reflection, a lot of these things make the hobby more easy to enter. You can always play Dungeon Crawl Classics.

As for the candy-colored tieflings...hey, my favorite 1e mod was Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. I'm not a genre purist.

I wasn't trying to pick on grognards. I'm actually pretty conservative in the nonpolitical sense...I usually respect the progenitors of the field, enjoy tracing developments over time, and like reading old editions of Dragon and tracing back the oddities of the game to its wargaming roots. Without Gygax, no Zeb Cook. Without Zeb Cook, no Monte Cook, Jonathan Tweet, or Skip Williams. Without those guys, no 4e, and without 4e, no 5e. We are, all of us, nothing more than links in a long chain.

 

[Emerikol]

I think roleplaying games are so wide open in ways they could be played that it's impossible for one game to suit all styles. WotC wants to maximize profit so they will do what they can to leverage their name and provide something they believe is in the sweet spot of gaming. Sometimes they fail (4e) and sometimes they succeed (5e).

I'm at the place though where I really don't care to sit in the sweet spot anymore. I know what I like and I don't care a lot whether others like it or not except for my groups of course. So I've left D&D proper behind but now I have tons of OSR products out there so no harm no foul. When 3e made the OGL, they saved the hobby for me.

So here are my "grognard" things that I think are very good for games that some modern designers may not agree are good.
1. Skilled play that includes preparation, caution, and planning.
2. Things like level drain, rusting of items, losing constitution from death/raising happening to PCs on occasion.
3. Failure. Meaning you try some ability or skill and it fails. It doesn't always have to lead to some other consequence. Sometimes you just try to climb a slick wall and can't.
4. Letting the dice fall. That means not fudging things as GM to make the game "better".

 

[Imaro]

I'm curious are there any streams of OSR games that feature women or PoC as players or DM... also are there any Youtube/Twitch shows about OSR games (rules, reviews, advice, etc.) that are run by PoC oe women. I'll be honest I see way more PoC and women involved in modern D&D than in OSR games across social media, which probably colors perception and/or leads to lack of awareness in those groups.

 

[Campbell]

Sean Nintner's Actual Play features actual plays of Stars Without Number, Classic Traveller, and Mothership.

I have seen a lot of streams featuring OSR games that feature women and POC, but most of them are indie adjacent streams. That's probably just the space I tend to live in though.