is this an evil act?

[Sarevok]

The truth : killing is an evil act and nothing can justify this action. In Vampire : The Masquerade you can loss Humanity points if you kill people. If you kill to protect someone or to save the world, you can loss humanity too, because you killed, and no motive will allow you to kill and be a good guy. If you don't believe in me go to the street and kill someone with a knife. After this we talk.

(of course if you use your brain you will see that good adventures are VERY VERY rare. Good people does not travel sleeping in the wilderness and killing "evil" mages with swords)

My advice: Your character can be Chaotic Neutral, or a Chaotic Evil character blind in his quest to kill "evil" people, thinking himself as a hero, thinking he will save the "good" people if he kills the "evil" people.

 

[Celtavian]

Re

Green Slime,

This is what I was responding to:

Would you do this IRL? If you say someone do this, would you consider it evil?

Not a political debate, but a question posed by a poster. That is why I used the username before the response.

 

[green slime]

Re: Re

Green Slime,

This is what I was responding to:

Would you do this IRL? If you say someone do this, would you consider it evil?

Not a political debate, but a question posed by a poster. That is why I used the username before the response.

Fair enough. But I did have to bite my tongue not to respond about deserving the Death penalty... It sort of touched a nerve. People have strong feelings both ways. So the in game response was cool, the feelings for those Insane nuts that commit atrocious deeds I can understand. But our ability to faultlessly judge those accused I find somewhat lacking, to say the least.

Sorry dude, you just touched a nerve, thats all. I'm cool now, ya' know B)

 

[Sanackranib]

evil act

I once played in a party that had 3 necromancers in it representing the 3 evil alignments going throgh the old module temple of elemental evil, we usually gave folks a chance to join us since most people want to live and we were obviously more powerfull we were able to pick up quite a few followers. those who proved to be unrelyable were fed to the pack of ravenous ghouls we kept around just for that purpose.

If you have to ASK if it's Evil then it probably is. Don't fight it - embrace the dark side . . . It's . . . Invogorating!
waaa ha ha ha ha ha

 

[Happy Monkey]

I just have to disagree with you Sarevok. Many things can justify killing another person in the game, indeed I would expect my dm to throw up some decent rationale to justify the resorting to violence. If everything is misunderstood or being forced to be bad, I'd have to sack the dm and design some real villains myself.

Don't get me wrong, surprise innocence and other curve-balls are great for breaking monotony and adding a bit of depth. Just like the dialogue heavy sessions so everyone can get a bit of purpose.

But if my game of D&D is either everyone being benign social workers or being forced to be grubby villains, well that would make the DM a right jacka$$.

The Vampire system is simply designed to reinforce the concept of "tragic" characters with their "humanity points". These points are supposed to be lost so said characters can wallow in their angst when they are "forced" to slay more innocents for their vampiric thirst. All I am saying is that this system will force you to lose humanity, but it is just another system and it (like D&D) certainly does not apply to real life.

 

[green slime]

If everything is misunderstood or being forced to be bad, I'd have to sack the dm and design some real villains myself.

Not EVERYONE, but just enough to cause people to pause and reflect. Of course real villains exist, and many will fight to the death, either because they believe in their cause, or they believe in their ultimate victory, or because of the terrible retribution they will suffer should they fail, or because they cannot believe there is forgiveness for what they have done. The reasons are there for the DM to provide.

Don't get me wrong, surprise innocence and other curve-balls are great for breaking monotony and adding a bit of depth. Just like the dialogue heavy sessions so everyone can get a bit of purpose.

Agreed. See previous statment.

But if my game of D&D is either everyone being benign social workers or being forced to be grubby villains, well that would make the DM a right jacka$$.

It would get a tad tiring, wouldn't it? Just as it would if all enemies were mere through and through Evil, all the time.

I shocked my players once, when they ignored the surrender of a group of goblins, (the PCs kept up the slaughter). Instead of fighting back, the goblins sprinted for the second storey window and threw themselves out, hoping to get away. They died from the fall of course. Suddenly the slaughter didn't seem so heroic anymore. Since then, the players usually accept surrender, and find most times, it causes little problem. Most mortals find they enjoy life, especially if you stick a large sword under their nose and ask.

 

[mythago]

As soon as you talk about killing intelligent humanoids as "wasting them," you've passed out of the realm of LG.

Y'all know the quotation about being careful when hunting monsters, right? (And the legal definition of murder is 'killing of a human being by a human being with malice aforethought,' at Anglo common law.)

Good people sometimes do evil things - they're only human.

It's how they react to those evil things that shows their alignment. The 'good' character who shrugs and says hey, nobody's perfect, I'd rule is being not-so-good. Genuinely good people recognize and regret their evil acts.

 

[jdavis]

In Vampire : The Masquerade you can loss Humanity points if you kill people. If you kill to protect someone or to save the world, you can loss humanity too, because you killed, and no motive will allow you to kill and be a good guy.

And in Werewolf the act of not killing humans who get too close to knowing the truth about werewolves is one of the big ulitmate sins (protecting the viel at all cost). Of course this is all just the way you look at situations. White Wolf logic is for White Wolf games.

As far as D&D goes it would pretty much not work if any killing at all would cause you to be neutral, You can't just say killing makes you evil, or killing is a evil act. I mean from a rules standpoint that would make all good aligned characters stuck at lower classes, I mean you gather exp for defeating enemies, and the most logical way to defeat them is to kill them. Before anybody wants to jump game mechanics, it's in another thread already.

I think the whole point of the thread wasn't if killing was evil but if the way the PC killed the NPC was.

 

[jdavis]

It's how they react to those evil things that shows their alignment. The 'good' character who shrugs and says hey, nobody's perfect, I'd rule is being not-so-good. Genuinely good people recognize and regret their evil acts.

These kind of after the fact character reflections are what makes for good role playing, good characters will make mistakes, and sometimes good characters will go to far, it's how the character reacts to this that judges alignment. Well one of the ways to judge alignment.