Is this fair? - confessions of a killer DM

Was this fair? - See sordid details below

  • Yes

    Votes: 37 56.9%
  • No

    Votes: 21 32.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 7 10.8%

howandwhy99

Adventurer
I ran the 3rd session of our 3.5 Greyhawk AoW game Sunday. It's been a rough campaign so far. Near TPK the 1st session (2 dead). Near TPK the 2nd session (1 dead). And last session 3 more died. Every time I go home I have a cold feeling of dread freezing my spine and the back of my brain. You know the kind that wakes you up in the middle of the night screaming "What have I done!!". So in fits of what must look like paranoia I ask the players if they're having fun. And they keep saying "yes". Now I don't know if I've lost my mind or they've lost theirs.



The sordid details: (SOME AOW SPOILERS) - Keep in mind, the PCs are all 1st level.

A large battle with 8 lizardfolk & 2 kobolds (1 black) ended the 2nd session. Remarkably all 5 PC's stabilized in the negatives, 3 from cure spells, 2 from lucky rolls. 2 lizards ran in fear during the fight, most of the other opponents died, but the last living (and greviously injured) lizard landed the final blow on the last standing PC. We ended there after rolling for hourly consciousness (or hourly death for the 2 untended). I had the surviving lizard eat one of them (After rolling randomly, the players convinced me to use the the druid's animal companion. I"m too nice).

So the 3rd session began with the human fighter Rejjy gaining consciousness. He awoke inside the mud mound where the battle had taken place. Disabled he couldn't do much, but I made a house rule* so we could play. No living were around so he tended to the 2 dying (w/o success), heard a creature outside, played dead, and soon found himself in a pile of PCs outside 100' from the mound. While the lizard was active in the mound, Rejjy surreptitiously tended the wounded and noticed the bard, Calorian, was missing. 2 hours later same said bard makes his hourly check & wakes hearing the lizard right next to him. Both are still in the mound. Playing dead Calorian listens to the creature until it descend into a 40' hole leading to a large crypt below. 2 ropes lead from a makeshift spear/shield entrance blockade the lizard made and lead into the hole. Brilliantly Calorian doesn't fully cut them (1 was an early warning system) and leaves a thread connected on each. Rejjy's seen, waved over, and they start talking while dismantling the barrier. The lizard hears them & calls out, then the ropes break 1 at a time with a THUD afterwards. :) The creature roars and curses "HUMAN! HUMAN!" to no avail. An hour later the halfling cleric Ludd would piss on him down the hole to add insult to injury.

Skipping over a bunch, Rejjy had managed to save the rest of the crew outside and stop Calorian's bleeding. All were still in the negatives w/o spells or any abilities, but healing would come the next morning (by a halfling cleric & dwarf druid). Unfortunately, when night arrived so did a pack of wild dogs looking for the fresh kill. Between cutting up the previous session's opponents (oddly laid all the way in the rear of the mound), tossing the cut bits outside, burning anything to keep the fire in the doorway going, and hearing the lizard below bawling, no one slept a wink. Fortunately Divine spells don't require 8 hours rest. :whew: With every spell spent on healing, the crew was thrilled to be back in fighting shape. The cleric was nearly full (7?), Rejjy at 1, the Druid at 2, and the others almost out of the negatives. When a howl below came from the hole (like the lizard falling swiftly downward), it looked like their troubles were over. They decided to make camp and spend a few days in their newfound paradise.

Sadly, early afternoon trouble arrived in a big way. The lizards who ran the previous session had made it home & another contingent had been sent out. But why such a big group just to collect their dead? All the PCs were in the mound when they heard the roars outside. The 2 injured & cleric Ludd descended to the tomb below as the Druid and Rejjy chose to fight. In vain, unfortunately. 10 foes with 3 hp's between 'em was a sacrifice fight. (Lizardlolk are 2HD CR1 btw). 2 dead and the session wasn't even half over.

Luckily the other 3 found their remaining equipment from the old lizard nemesis and spent the next few days exploring multiple rooms of the tomb. Water was found, but light was hard to come by. For food the cleric had to purify the flesh of the lizard he had earlier pissed on. (sweet irony) It was even rough the 1st night as they awoke a CR 1/3 human skeleton guardian. (in their condition the attacks were save or die until it was turned). The next morning they found the entrance above resealed. They were buried alive. Even worse, Rejjy and the druid's bodies were hung in nooses attached to the stone cap above.

I'd like to say that's were it ended, but I still have one more death to account for. Far more happened and I've skipped most of the flavor, but near the end the bard & the 5th PC (a human spellthief) tried climbing the hanged bodies to the lid above. (A lid they new was broken from their own attempts to remove it - during a previous combat) Both failed their saves as 200 lbs of stone fell 40'. Ludd healed the spellthief, but the druid and his (now ripe) fallen allies were squashed. And of course a couple rounds later spears rained down from the light above.

That's pretty much were we stand now. 3 PCs dead & 2 buried alive with guards above. It's no wonder I shiver on the way home.



So was this fair? I swear I never fudged.







*Disabled house rule - Standard actions are at -5 and take 10x as long, essentially 1 minute each. Strength and Constitution-based checks starts the Dying rule again, but communally they could be performed. DM's call. So no combat and no casting. With 1 exception: loaded crossbows could be fired (with the -5).
 
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There are some things you could have done to take it easier on them, but it would also help if they would learn when to run. It also looks like bad dice rolls also contributed. The only way for you to fix that is to fudge some dice rolls in the parties favor, such as have the lizards/kobolds miss a few extra times, etc...

So I think your doing pretty good. You just may want to cut down the number of opponents and random feral dog packs until 2nd level. The lizard/kobold encounter is a CR3 or CR4 encounter, very tough/dangerous unless a lot of rolls go in the PC's favor, and they didn't.

Similiar for that last encounter, especially if you take into account party condition. So you may also want to use more of your imagination to come up with reasons why the bad guys DON'T come back as well.
 

Sounds a bit tough to my reading skills of the situation. Not sure about the EL (no books with me right now) but that is what I am calling tough.

If your Players are having fun, and there are no complaints of the encounter strength vs their abilities then you are okay, if they are making noise you might want to tone done the next encounter, just to allow them the feeling that they have a chance somewhere down the road.

FWIW- I think you are working with your players, open and accepting (from what I read) and that makes a better GM then a RB type. Let it flow, have fun, lighten up once in a while and give them lots of goodies.

Peace, and good luck
 
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For what it is worth, I am one of howandwhy99's players.

I missed the first two sessions, and got to take over playing the dwarf druid in the 3d session, until he was killed. Then I handled the spellthief for an absent player.

I very much enjoyed the session. The odds were against us, but two PCs are still alive. If they manage to survive their story will be epic.

While our group has played through some grim and gritty situations before, I have rarely felt the fear of PC death the way I do now. Everyone has learned to bring at least on backup character to each session. This is old school gaming to me. I'm digging it.

For the record, one player has made note that the encounters might need to be adjusted some. Not entirely a complaint, but I think he is getting tired of the PC deaths. Oddly enough, his PC is the only one left alive from the first session.
 

howandwhy99 said:
I ran the 3rd session of our 3.5 Greyhawk AoW game Sunday.

...

The sordid details: (SOME AOW SPOILERS) - Keep in mind, the PCs are all 1st level.

A large battle with 8 lizardfolk & 2 kobolds (1 black) ended the 2nd session.

Huh? When you wrote "AoW game," I thought that stood for "Age of Worms." But there are no encounters with lizardmen or kobolds in the Whispering Cairn. So I assume 'AoW' must stand for something else. Please enlighten me.
 

howandwhy99 said:
A large battle with 8 lizardfolk & 2 kobolds (1 black)

Okay, Just running this encounter through a very simple encounter calculator indicates that it was a CR 6 encounter. (eight CR 1 monsters, the two kobolds are each 1/6th, though i don't know how one being a black kobold affects it's CR.)

Your party is level 1.

Inputting these factors, yields the following information from the aforementioned calculator:

Effective Party level: 1.3
Encounter Level 6.1
Difficulty: Deadly
Advice to party: Run away!

For gods sake, give them something easier to cut their teeth on!

Uniform XP per character: 521
Treasure Value: 2070 GP
 

That was harsh,

But on the up side you can't say that they didn't earn their rewards even if that meant just living through it,

but yeah harsh, The only time I've been that...tough....was a game of "Reign of Fire", some players enjoy the (extreme) challenge, (victory tastes more sweeter)
 
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Agent Oracle said:
For gods sake, give them something easier to cut their teeth on!

This is my opinion as well. It is fair, it's just way over the top.

Send them after some dragons next...
 

Sounds brutal. Doesn't sound like you're trying to punish them or any other silliness, and it sounds like fun. Fair by me!
 

Agent Oracle said:
Advice to party: Run away!

We kinda-sorta tried that in session 2 but got easily overtaken. The fear of death is real and the sense of accomplishment is great when we do overcome obstacles. I'm having fun and I'm getting to try out classes I've never played before like paladin and cloistered cleric. When my character finally does survive I'll feel like I've actually earned it.
 

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