Is this fair? -- your personal opinion

[Hussar]

Its fair because they didn't cast detect magic. If they had done that, and seen nothing to warn them, then you were being a killer DM. Its not your fault they were going to fast to think of casting detect magic.

But, even with detect magic, why would they particularly stop? So the lever is magical. It's iffy whether or not the cleric or mage would make his spellcraft check to determine school, so, all you get is, "The lever is magical". Well, duh, it's connected to a secret door.

It still, in no way warns the party that an unavoidable instant death trap is on the lever.

Of course this automatically assumes that the party has either a cleric or a wizard and that either one has detect magic memorized.

I'm sorry, the trap is just cheezy. Extra strong fromage. Bang bang, ah crap I'm dead type traps are neither fun nor particularly memorable.

 

[pawsplay]

Why would there be a big, non-secret lever in the middle of the room for a secret door? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the secret door?

Obvious trap.

 

[ThirdWizard]

I have no sympathy for players who push the Big Red Button, or who find a plate of eggs benedict in a strange, uninhabited cavern sitting on at a fancy table in the middle of an empty, dark, stalactite-filled room and say, "I eat the eggs benedict."

Of course, they'll eat the eggs. Or at least, they'll interact with the eggs in some way, and being that eggs are a type of food, more than likely it will be by eating them.

I mean, what are the odds of finding eggs in the middle of a dungeon? That's just weird. Obviously, something very important is going down with those eggs. You don't just find eggs in the middle of a dungeon. Is there anyone alive who would merely pass by the eggs? Who can do that???

Perhaps there are two groups of people responding. The unfair crowd generally thinks of adventuring as exploring, being a hero, and facing the unknown in front of you with eyes wide open, blazenly.

The other group sees adventuring as carefully making your way through life, touching nothing that looks odd, analyzing every detail for minutia, and generally being scared of every shadow you come across.

Yeah, that's an exaggeration, but I find the first type of adventuring far more fun than the second, and I would rather play in a game built around the first, more cinematic and what I consider adventurous.

 

[Numion]

I think it's fair. A million ways to defuse the situation. There's detect magic to give some hints, then there's the cleric spell (Augury?) that let's you ask whether good or bad will ensue from said lever pullage .. but most of all, there's common sense

It isn't too different from a dungeon adventure where there were death symbols behind a tapestry .. peek-a-boo

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I voted fair.

I've personally lost PCs from touching surfaces that were trapped with disintigrate-type traps...and they weren't levers or anything that obviously screamed "Touch me!"

THAT was unfair.

Like pawsplay said- as traps go, this one was pretty obvious.

And I, knowing my luck, would not eat the eggs.

I would not eat them with a gnome, I would not eat them in my home. I would not eat them in a box, I would not eat them with a fox (not even if it were Courtney Cox). I would not eat those eggs, my man- dungeon eggs are such a sham! So no such eggs will I consume, I'll leave them be within that room. I'll wander off some leagues and paces to eat some eggs in safer places.

 

[MarkB]

Lowering a halfling down on a rope should only be done with spare halflings.

Is there any other kind?

 

[Plane Sailing]

If I found a secret door hidden in a room with a very prominent lever, I probably wouldn't assume that the lever activated the secret door... why would the door be secret and the lever public? It would rather defeat the object of having a secret door.

Beyond that though?

In deciding whether it seems fair or not though, I wonder this - had the monk got the best saves in the party (presumably why he was chosen to pull the lever)? Because I think a trap which will kill anyone in the party who doesn't roll a 20 on their save is bad design. I don't mind traps which require a 20 fort save for the wizard but are fine for the fighter, for instance, but I certainly wouldn't use a trap that required a 20 for everybody.

Cheers

 

[Bagpuss]

Obvious trap.

Isn't the whole points of traps that they aren't obvious. Also if it was so obvious why didn't the rogue detect it on his Search check?

To me adverturing is about action not inaction, if I just wanted to leave every lever or switch I found alone, I'ld become a commoner and stick to farming.

 

[PapersAndPaychecks]

To me adverturing is about action not inaction, if I just wanted to leave every lever or switch I found alone, I'ld become a commoner and stick to farming.

C'mon, Bagpuss: adventuring's about decision-making. If the adventurers are automatically going to pull the lever, there's no point having a lever; you might as well just have the secret door pop open when the players enter the room. Therefore, pulling the lever or not needs to be a real decision.

 

[delericho]

Assuming the party is of such level that character death actually matters (ie low to mid level), then this trap is simply bad design - save or die with an extremely high DC just isn't fun. (As opposed to save or 3d6 Con damage, or save or unleash chain lightning on party, or...)

Whether the trap is fair or not depends on two factors: the DC to detect, and whether this is an otherwise level-appropriate dungeon.

If the DC to detect the trap was placed such that the Rogue had little to no chance of success, and the save DC was likewise so high that the character with the best saves needed a 20 to survive, then the trap was unfair.

Unless, that is, the PCs are in over their heads. If this lair of the BBEG has been shown time and again to be extremely deadly, and far beyond their current capabilities, then they should be aware that they've pushed their luck to the limits already, and that there may well be dangers that they can't properly detect or defend against.

If this is a level-appropriate dungeon, then the check DC to find the trap should be such that the Rogue can do so on a 10 or so (actually, less if the save DC is so high and the consequences so dire - the DM should WANT the PCs to find this trap before it kills off a PC).

I'm going to vote unfair. However, my position would be changed if further information came to light that the Search DC was very low, that the dungeon wasn't designed to be level-appropriate, or it emerged that the Monk was suffering some (known) penalties to his saves for some reason. But, even if that happens, I'll still argue that the trap was badly designed for anything other than a high-level game.