Is this fair? -- your personal opinion

[wayne62682]

I don't see how it's fair in the least. It's deliberately screwing over a player with a save-or-die trap when there's no indication that it's a trap. Nevermind the ludicrously high DC which basically guarentees someone will die. That kind of "Oh but it's a dungeon, there are going to be death traps" attitude should have gone the way of the dodo along with 3d6 stats in order, weapon speeds and THAC0.

Just my two cents.. but then again I hate anything that purposely hinders/screws over the players.

Regards,
Wayne

 

[zypherillius]

The monk bit the dust...

apparently its the rogues fault for not searching hign enough on the lever. next time he can take a 20, because youre allowed to take a 20 on search checks.

 

[PapersAndPaychecks]

That kind of "Oh but it's a dungeon, there are going to be death traps" attitude should have gone the way of the dodo along with 3d6 stats in order, weapon speeds and THAC0.

Now that you've lit the blue touch paper, I think I'll retire to a safe distance.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Perhaps there are two groups of people responding. The unfair crowd generally thinks of adventuring as exploring, being a hero, and facing the unknown in front of you with eyes wide open, blazenly.

The other group sees adventuring as carefully making your way through life, touching nothing that looks odd, analyzing every detail for minutia, and generally being scared of every shadow you come across.

Exactly. Theres a contingent at ENWorld who believes Raiders of the Lost Ark would have been better if it was 90 minutes of Indiana Jones taking spending 10 minutes searching a 5 foot square, throwing a rope on it, throwing a stick at it, sending a native to walk forwards, then proceeding and repeating. The golden idol? Screw picking that up, its time to leave. Roll credits.

I find that incredibly lame and sad.

The only way this is a fair scenario is if the monk isnt dead, but teleported or something.

 

[tzor]

I voted other. I've played since 1980, I've known and loved the old save and/or die traps of the early days. I tend not to favor them these days, but the whole thing to me revolves around context. There is a time and a place for even a killer dungeon.

Since the context is missing, I can't really talk about the specific case. Is the general area itself filled with such traps or is this a singluar occurance? What is the level of the trap in relation to the occupants therein? (In this case I think the trap is overkill. If you can't save with a 19 you are probably way to low level to be playing with the trap. But they defeated the general occupants so there is a clear level disconnect.) What is the purpose of the trap? (It might have been a suicide room allowing those convicted of treason the way to humanely execute themselves without having to be stabbed, poisoned, etc. The secret door might be in fact a one way door openable only by someone on the other side.)

And when you only had four choices as to what to play (unless you rolled high enough for the premium classes) 3d6 in order gave you that not to subtle hint. Weapon speeds on the other hand, like the to hit verses armor types was routinely ignored by my ganing group. As were the non weapon combat rules.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Exactly. Theres a contingent at ENWorld who believes Raiders of the Lost Ark would have been better if it was 90 minutes of Indiana Jones taking spending 10 minutes searching a 5 foot square, throwing a rope on it, throwing a stick at it, sending a native to walk forwards, then proceeding and repeating. The golden idol? Screw picking that up, its time to leave. Roll credits.

I find that incredibly lame and sad.

The only way this is a fair scenario is if the monk isnt dead, but teleported or something.

Movies and games are not the same thing and what works in one does not always work in the other. I would think that is obvious.

P.S. Was the director screwing Indy by putting a trap on the idol podium? If he hadn't had that bag of sand he would have been screwed and had to go home empty handed. Obviously the director was out to screw Indy out of his fun time....

 

[takyris]

Movies and games are not the same thing and what works in one does not always work in the other. I would think that is obvious.

They're the same in one respect, though. If Indy had to summon a magical creature to pull every darn lever for him because there might be a nondetectable instakill trap on it, I'd think it was kind of a lame movie. I would similarly find this an asinine DMing tactic -- if the rogue can't find it and the monk can't save against it, it shouldn't be an instakill.

P.S. Was the director screwing Indy by putting a trap on the idol podium? If he hadn't had that bag of sand he would have been screwed and had to go home empty handed. Obviously the director was out to screw Indy out of his fun time....

Flex, I'd posit that there's a subtle difference between a nice slow rolling boulder and an instant disintegration trap that a monk can't save against on a natural 19.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

It depneds on if you outrun the boulder...

plus weren't there poison dart traps and spear traps in there that he had to run through? Talk about a screw job!

 

[takyris]

It depneds on if you outrun the boulder...

plus weren't there poison dart traps and spear traps in there that he had to run through? Talk about a screw job!

I believe you're attempting to use humorous sarcasm to make a point, but your metaphor is badly flawed. Did Indy need to roll a natural 20 to outrun the boulder?

I'm not arguing against traps. I'm arguing against traps that the rogue can't possibly detect and that the guy with the best saves can't realistically survive.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I believe you're attempting to use humorous sarcasm to make a point, but your metaphor is badly flawed. Did Indy need to roll a natural 20 to outrun the boulder?

I agree--not only that, the boulder trap leaves room for a lot more ingenuity than a boring instant death (save DC too high for anyone). There are plenty of ingenious ways to avoid the boulder in D&D--I had one player who encountered a boulder trap like the one in Indiana Jones and quickly cast Rope Trick, scuttling into the extradimensional space and waiting for the boulder to roll past. It was a great idea on the player's part, and if the trap had instead been an instant death trap with a DC that the characters couldn't make, this would have been less fun *and* discouraged player ingenuity.