Is this offensive?

[Asmor]

Odd stat modifiers offend me deeply.

Serious, -- N

Damn, I came in here to say that.

 

[Ed_Laprade]

I don't find it offensive, but pointless. As Morrus pointed out, PC's are the best of the best. Racial modifiers are largely for flavor and to reflect gross anatomical and cultural differences from human standard. Gender variation within that distribution should be minimal.

And, in any event, why tick off the player? Whereas many feel comfortable playing a different gender, some don't, and penalizing a player for that isn't worth a trivial increase in realism.

That's pretty much my take on it as well. It just isn't worth the bother. As for the comfort zone, I first played a female character because the only 'girl' in our group at the time (and one of the best role-players I've ever met) was uncomfortable at having the only female character in a group of high testosterone male characters wandering around the countyside together. Please note that none of the guys ever thought much about it, and we certainly never made fun of it, but she was still uncomfortable anyway - despite having been a player for several years at the time.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

Damn, I came in here to say that.

As usual, Nifft wins.

 

[Fifth Element]

I voted option 1, but not so much offends as it is a Wrong Stereotype. I have seen female bodybuilders that can kick the tail of most people here and they would be the ones doing the adventuring.

Okay, but you're comparing a select group from one gender against the average of another. Why wouldn't we compare male bodybuilders with female bodybuilers, to keep the comparison fair?

That being said, I agree that it's not offensive, but pointless. You just have to remember that adventurers are a self-selecting group, and therefore the typical specimen of the gender is not very useful for comparison.

Of course, one could say the same thing about the fantasy races as well, but whatever. The racial differences are there for purposes of flavour and variety. We don't need another thing to create differential, especially one that has the potential to offend some players.

 

[Fifth Element]

Races aren't real. Logic doesn't apply. The rules say the fictional, invented species known as "halfling" gets a -2 modifier. Who cares why?

The point wasn't logic, but consistency. If gender differences are irrelevant because adventurers are a tiny, elite subgroup, then why do racial modifiers still matter? How can we explain away one type of group difference by using the elite nature of the characters, but not also explain away another type of group difference?

Not that I'm suggesting that gender modifiers should be added. I'm quite happy with the current system. I guess I just like to argue.

 

[krissbeth]

D&D is about heroic exceptions; while there may be differences in real life between the genders, the ones in a D&D adventuring party (i.e. any PCs) are the heroic fighters, wizards or rogues - the strongest, the fastest, the best. There's no need for gender-based differences - we're talking about a tiny, unusual, highly capable, elite subset of the worlds' fantasy society anyway.

That's what I would say were my initial reaction not, "DUDE. Seriously?"

The adventurers, regardless of sex, are exceptional. If someone wants to make the -2/+1/+1 a part of their character, whatever. However, that's making a pretty broad assumption of half the population of any race that isn't asexual. I don't think that's a fair penalty/bump to female adventurers.

Halflings are short but not all females are fragile and genteel.

 

[Aholibamah]

I'm not offended but I agree with what others have said here: in a way in D&D terms it's irrelevant. All adventurers are going to be exceptional individuals and should be regarded as such. You can have the average npc woman be smaller than the average guy, with emphasis on endurance versus upper body strength and all that is assumed; you can even have societies that have certain traditional roles for women and men, but if a player is going to roll up a character let the dice fall where they may.

 

[Piratecat]

The point wasn't logic, but consistency. If gender differences are irrelevant because adventurers are a tiny, elite subgroup, then why do racial modifiers still matter? How can we explain away one type of group difference by using the elite nature of the characters, but not also explain away another type of group difference?

Because you're being simulationist about a largely gamist rule.

The point of racial modifiers is to provide a meaningful, mechanical choice when building a character. It's one of the things that differentiates a halfling from a half-orc. I'd argue that personality-based gender differences are so ingrained that the game simply doesn't need to apply a mechanical modifier to gender in order to make the choice meaningful to a player.

 

[Fifth Element]

Because you're being simulationist about a largely gamist rule.

The point of racial modifiers is to provide a meaningful, mechanical choice when building a character. It's one of the things that differentiates a halfling from a half-orc. I'd argue that personality-based gender differences are so ingrained that the game simply doesn't need to apply a mechanical modifier to gender in order to make the choice meaningful to a player.

Yeah, that's what I said.

Edit: More or less. I like your (our) answer much better than Morrus'.

 

[kenmarable]

I do think it's pretty offensive and just reinforces gender differences that are even pretty dubious in the real world. With a young daughter just starting to get into RPGs, I would really dislike seeing that sort of thing. I have a hard enough time deprogramming her from one of their grandparents telling her that "Well, boys are mean." anytime she gets into an argument with her younger brother. I don't want to add more gender-role deprogramming than I need to.

Besides, just to turn it around, why not give all males a +2 Str/-1 Wis/-1 Cha? Why do females have to differ from the norm and not the males?

Edit: Just noticed that you did mention applying the other penalty to males instead. Kudos for that. All too often I see this discussion popping up as what modifiers to give female characters and leaving males for some bizarre reason as the norm.