Is this WotC's first high-level commoner?

[Rugger]

My theory about high level commoners is this:

Wow. I think I just almost peed my pants, that made me laugh so hard...

-Rugger

 

[Spatula]

I also find it interesting that WotC seem to be breaking the "Eberron only has a low level NPCs"-rule after only a few months.

They broke that "rule" as soon as they wrote the campaign book, which has several high-level NPCs.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

(You might be wondering, what about paladins and clerics? They're good, right? Well, it's all a lie. If they're so good, why do they charge you for healing magic? They're all like, "I am nice, I am clean, I could cure the world of all it's ills, but I'd rather have MADZ L00TZ!!1!!" And where do you think all those donations go to? That's right, they fund the purchase of those super-magic, deadly crossbows that every last tavern owner on Oerth keeps behind his bar to keep PC-related brawls from getting out of hand.)

OR they go and kill those EVIL Commoners that are just far too common. You know them. The kind that don't greet you when you walk by, or even respond to a "Good Day". The kind that let their animals crap in the street just for your to walk through. Evil Commoners, I tell you...EEEEVIL.

 

[Hellcow]

They broke that "rule" as soon as they wrote the campaign book, which has several high-level NPCs.

*shrug* Stone Dog has hit it on the head. Jaela is the highest-level good cleric on Khorvaire, and if she ever leaves Flamekeep she's only 3rd level. Not to mention, as she's a child her physical stats suck, and as Stone Dog suggests, she's got a nation to run. Oalian is a 20th level druid, but he really doesn't like to move, and when it comes down to it he's Neutral -- so he doesn't much care about a war between Darguun and Breland.

The goal was never to avoid high-level NPCs completely; it was to make sure that the PCs have the potential to be the heroes of the world. By the time you're 12th-level you should have a considerable reputation, and as you approach 20th the bards should be singing of your exploits. When the Tarrasque does come to Thrane, Jaela will be calling you, because she can't leave Flamekeep to deal with it. And all the 17th-level commoners in Khorvaire together aren't going to have much luck against it!

As for 17th-level commoners, it's one of those weird things that's supported by the DMG demographics tables but can be hard to wrap your brain around. If the commoner splits skill ranks they aren't that impressive; even at 17th level you're only talking about 40 skill points, not that much more than a 1st-level rogue. The issue is that if they focus on just two skills, they get that impessive +20 modifier. Demographics implied that there were some high level commoners in Sharn, and I thought that we ought to call them out, because if you've got +20 ranks you should be well known; my thought was that the main way to get that good at something is by spending centuries working at it, which is why she's an elf.

As to how they get the experience, I just don't apply experience rules to NPCs. I don't feel that the village blacksmith should become a better blacksmith by beaning a few goblins with his hammer. Likewise, I'm perfectly willing to say that most commoners never will advance above 5th level, whatever they do. Personally, the experience system -- with the associated potential to jump up levels in a ridiculously short span of time -- is something I reserve for PCs, as the heroes of the story. Personally, I prefer the idea that the cook has a +20 modifier because she spent 300 years cooking than because she killed 536,210 goblins (though I'd advise you to avoid her "Soylent Gob" special...).

But with all that said, I think Mike's idea is the only logical answer!

 

[Li Shenron]

Blah... :\ this only because skills have max ranks based on level and level comes with BAB, ST an hit points.

So if you want the best cook in the world, you must give him also lots of hit points, and decent ST and attack bonus, unless you deliberately give him very low constitution and strength which may not fit the NPC at all.

Honestly, if I want the guy/gal with +20 in profession(cook) I just give him/her that and don't bother about the class If the PC try to kill him/her, it's still possible to have only 1d4 HP no matter what the DMG says.

 

[Robbert Raets]

.... I prefer the idea that the cook has a +20 modifier because she spent 300 years cooking than because she killed 536,210 goblins (though I'd advise you to avoid her "Soylent Gob" special...)

Bwahahaa!

(Pst, Ellen; 'To Serve Honeycakes' is a cookbook!!)

 

[Brother MacLaren]

Here's how you make the DMG demographics work:
A couple of warriors get together and fight. "This time it's for real!" they shout. So Upon first blood, the injured warrior surrenders and the winner gets the XP. The next day, they do this again, racking up thousands of XP and gaining those levels without actually depopulating the vicinity to the extent that the XP chart would imply.
Or, you just say that NPCs are given their levels or skill bonuses by the DM without having to earn it. That also works.

 

[Squire James]

I think justifying high-level commoners and experts is pretty easy... XP get awarded for overcoming challenges, not killing monsters. Catering an elaborate dinner party might be an EL 6 challenge, for instance. No ogres crashing the party needed (though if they DO beat up said ogre gate-crashers, that's worth XP too!).

 

[Sejs]

mmm.... Tarrasquebob...

One of the long standing (well, since the 3e monster manual came out, anyway) jokes amongst my group involved beating down the tarrasque and using it as a limitless source of food.


At which point one of the players stood up from his seat, snatched up the MM, opened it to the appropriate page and thrust it before the offending suggester's eyes.

"But look at him! Look at that smile! He's just so friendly! How could you possibly eat so friendly a monster?"

*Book Thrust-ee looks at the page, a momentary look of supprise crossing his features* "Wow... the Tarrasque has a 16 charisma..."

At which point one of the more quiet players, without looking up from what he's doing, injects into the momentary silence, clear as day:


"Tarrasque, the jerky you just can't say no to."

 

[Bloodstone Press]

Some folks seem to be forgetting that page 58 of the PHB says that XP actually come from the training and practice that a character does between adventures as it "consolidates what they learn on adventures." It goes on to say that if characters can't train, they might actually lose XP.

Imagine adventuring in such a hard core setting that you don't have time or an oppertunity to train and go up levels.... it has happened already to one group of adventurers I knew

As for high level commoners, they simply gain XP from practicing their trade day in and day out. Practice makes perfect after all.

In the same way, when we start games above 1st level, we sometimes say these 5th level (or even 10th level) characters are fresh from some sort of elite training school and have never truely adventured before.

What bugs me about the whole way the XP thing works in d20 is that they are expended in the crafting of magic items. So, basically, the more magic items you make, the worse you get at it. Seems counter intuitive, but I see the reasoning behind it.