Is TOMB OF HORRORS the Worst Adventure Of All Time?

Prevailing opinion here in the EN World community has traditionally held that the worst adventure module of all time is 1984's The Forest Oracle. 7th Sea designer John Wick (whose upcoming edition of 7th Sea is the third most anticipated tabletop RPG of 2016) vehemently disagrees; he nominates the classic adventure Tomb of Horrors for that position, contending that it "represents all the wrong, backward thinking that people have about being a GM." In an article on his blog (warning: this uses a lot of strong language), he goes into great detail as to why he hold this opinion, stating that the adventure is the "worst, &#@&$&@est, most disgusting piece of pig vomit ever published".


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[lQ]"My players picked the entrance with the long corridor rather than the two other entrances which are instant kills. That’s right, out of the three ways to enter the tomb, two of them are designed to give the GM the authority for a TPK."[/lQ]

Very strong words, and you can read them all here. As I mentioned before, there's lots of NSFW language there.

The article also includes an anecdote about a convention game in which he participated. In that game, being already familiar with the adventure and its traps (and having advised the DM of this), he played a thief and attempted to discover or deactivate the traps, up until a near TPK occurred and he left the game.

Wick is, of course, no stranger to controversy. A couple of years ago, he created widespread internet arguments when he stated that "The first four editions of D&D are not roleplaying games."
 

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The module is basically unplayable. That said, it was a fun read, and that we're talking about it all this time later means that it was thought-provoking at least.
The module is not remotely unplayable. It DOES require a healthy sense of paranoia and the expectation that what you don't know will probably kill you.

Speaking for myself, I LOVE games like that - played fair, in proper doses, and without misconceptions of the sort of game one is getting into.
 

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How can you use the word "unplayable" to describe a module that has been played? And beaten?

Like when people say "Ok, I played this in 1992 and..." are you saying they are lying?

Do you think the fan press stories from the original tournament runs are a clever fabrication?

How deep does this conspiracy you're imagining run?

These are not rhetorical questions--I really want to know.

Google "Tomb of Horrors unplayable" and you will get lots of hits. None will speak about a conspiracy (I take that back, I didn't click them, I'm assuming none will speak of a conspiracy). You may find that the English language occasionally has nuance. For example, I have been known to refer to a particular colleagues writing as "undecipherable" yet I have an employee who can indeed read her writing. No, I do not suspect my employee and this colleague are running a conspiracy either.

In regards to Tomb of Horrors, I can say that when I originally read the module many years ago, I decided I would never run it, because I did not think it would be fun to run or play. I still have it on my bookshelf, and have never run it in all these years, never will. That's what I meant by unplayable. Sorry that you misunderstood.
 

Google "Tomb of Horrors unplayable" and you will get lots of hits.

Plenty of people have false ideas about plenty of topics.

You may find that the English language occasionally has nuance.

The English language has plenty of nuance, but nuance is not the same as nonsense. That Tomb of Horrors is unplayable is nonsense. That you try to defend it, citing 'nuance', is to misuse nuance as much as you have misused unplayable.

For example, I have been known to refer to a particular colleagues writing as "undecipherable" yet I have an employee who can indeed read her writing.

What I generally note is that people use familiar words like 'indecipherable' when they lack the vocabulary to come up with a more appropriate term. But, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you meant to use the term merely as comic exaggeration.

So, were you utilizing comic exaggeration when you said that the module was unplayable?

In regards to Tomb of Horrors, I can say that when I originally read the module many years ago, I decided I would never run it, because I did not think it would be fun to run or play. I still have it on my bookshelf, and have never run it in all these years, never will. That's what I meant by unplayable. Sorry that you misunderstood.

Choosing not to play something is not the same as something being unable to be played. If you meant that you decided to never run it, then you should have said that.

Also, in general, apologizing for someone else's behavior is the same as saying that they and not you made the mistake. So it's not an apology at all, but in fact a covert insult.

Zak S didn't misunderstand you at all. He assumed you were intelligent enough to mean what you said and responded to you as if you were intelligent enough to deserve a response.

Incidentally, out of curiosity I did Google: "Tomb of horrors unplayable". And while its hard to tell what Google censors these days, the majority of my top answers, including essays like, "Tomb of Horrors: A D&D classic, or an unplayable deathtrap?", come down decidedly on the side of the adventure as a classic, and often, as the greatest D&D module of all time. Perhaps you were too quick to judge all those years ago.
 

It has been thought provoking and I have gone back and had a look at the module which I admit I haven't looked at since I played it in the early 80's.

---Spoilers below---

It still feels like there are too many arbitrary "no save you die gotcha" events or if you do X you get a prize (but you could just have easily died no save so the reward is too capricious to feel earned). Having said that it's not as deadly as I remember and I do credit a fair bit of the deadliness to the DM approach. In Wick's case, and in many others from what I understand, the DM seemed to embrace the DM v player style of game play (which is a style I'm not fond of but you may like) rather than DM as independent arbiter or co-storyteller. The advice for the DM in the module encourages independent arbiter but the competitive style seemed all to common when this was run in my day. I think that the tone of this adventure did imply that style of play.

The green devil mouth is a classic example. It doesn't suggest that the DM encourages players climb in and indeed on reading it again and the description of a sphere of annihilation in the DMG once any matter touches it it is destroyed. So unless you jump into it you would know it's destroying matter once you put your hand in, before going further (indeed sensibly the surrounding air would be rushing into it but maybe magic doesn't work that way).

I still think it's a beautiful piece of work and a seminal work that inspires and intrigues people 40 years on so kudos. It's not my preferred style of play it feels more like a bunch of puzzle tests, some requiring thought some needing luck, than the RPGs I am used to playing.

As a side thought I read about how when it was run at a tournament a group placed the gold crown found in the pillared throne room on the Demi lich's skull and touched the silver end of the sceptre to it. Gary Gygax was there and was called over to adjudicate and he ruled it destroyed the Demi lich.
Now in the module it says "touching the silver nob to the crown while wearing it the wearer is instantly snuffed out turning to a fetid powder which cannot be brought back to life no matter what" and it also says abou the final encounter "the skull can be harmed only as follows" and then lists 8 ways you can harm the skull (it doesn't include the crown/sceptre). I know that no one I played with would have allowed the crown thing to work - or anything else other than the 8 ways described.

Here's a list of fun ways to traverse tomb of horrors
- spend a few months casting divination spells with a list of questions before even approaching it
- sit outside for a week or two and send in sheep, summoned beasts, scry, etc
- cast find the path, find traps, knock, retreat and rest a day after every encounter. While inside remain flying and invisible. Use summoned monsters, dig past doors, etc
- summon earth elemental so to explore, tunnel and map it.
- or my personal favourite just strip mine the hill (50 charmed kobolds should do it) and enter every room from above.

And don't forget to sell off all the adamantine and mithril doors, vaults, valves etc - woo hoo cashola!

Whatever you do don't form up with a hardy band of adventurers and enter the tomb to explore it. This is an excavation not a combat mission.
 

The OP failed to understand what type of adventure he was running, and then blamed the adventure and not his lack of comprehension.

Tomb of Horrors is a classic adventure for a good reason. I've run it seven times since it first came out and only had one TPK. I've run it in D&D (of various edition), GURPS and RuneQuest (the last two systems far more lethal than D&D) and I have never had a group of players complain...

... quite the opposite in fact. They were usually the kind of people who enjoy horror movies, and they were mature and intelligent gamers (almost to the last of them).

The module is all about how you approach it, and about what you get out of a game.

Are you more concerned with challenge, invoking a rise in heart rate and trepidation for your enjoyment, or are you a self-entitled monty-haul munchkin (or some variant of that)? Where you are in that range will determine your appreciation of the module.

Tomb of Horrors never suited the processed cheese always-encounter-fair-CR approach to gaming because it pre-existed it, and if you aren't clever and lucky you have to run away at some point. If the GM is fair about pre-warning players, and has the right players (those more concerned with role-play over roll-play), they will get the most out of the dungeon and won't mind it's unforgiving nature.

I wish more published material didn't have a background write-up like "The dangerous dungeon of whatever, from whom countless adventurers have never returned", only to be an average working day stroll for adventurers of the right level.

Anyone running this dungeon who didn't realise what is was before they ran it either didn't bother reading it, or are dumb as a post.
 

Tomb of Horrors, to me, is kinda like a Tarantino movie. Either you really like them, or you really hate them. It's kinda rare to find someone who is on the fence. TOH hits all the buttons for people. If you want this style of play, then, it's a fantastic module. If it's not your bag, then it's REALLY not your bag. It's a bit of a one trick pony - it's not like you can change into different approaches in the adventure - either you're playing super paranoid SAS commandoes, or you're dead. You can't talk to anything, there's nothing, other than the traps, to interact with, and there's virtually nothing to fight.

To use 5e parlance, it's 100% exploration pillar. (Or close enough to 100%)

For exactly the same reasons [MENTION=4937]Celebrim[/MENTION] can look at the G modules and think they're somewhat simple to design (they're mostly combat adventures after all, one trick ponies as well), others look at ToH and think it's pretty much one long "gotcha".

Personally, I find a number of the trap encounters far too arbitrary to be interesting. You've got a 2 in three chance of dying at the entrance, and, outside of something like Contact other Plane or other "Please Mr. DM, can you give us a hint" type spells, there's no reason to try one over another. It's far too aribitrary for my tastes. I mean, good grief, you need to find what, some 11 secret doors, including one hidden inside a pit trap, in order to complete this module. Fail any one of those find secret doors checks, and you're SOL, you cannot actually find Acerak.

Certainly not to my tastes anymore.
 


It's a 403 error for the entire site -- seems like someone's messing with Wick's website, or something else has happened to mess with the permissions. It might just be maintenance on his webhost.
 

Here's a list of fun ways to traverse tomb of horrors
- spend a few months casting divination spells with a list of questions before even approaching it
- sit outside for a week or two and send in sheep, summoned beasts, scry, etc
- cast find the path, find traps, knock, retreat and rest a day after every encounter. While inside remain flying and invisible. Use summoned monsters, dig past doors, etc
- summon earth elemental so to explore, tunnel and map it.
- or my personal favourite just strip mine the hill (50 charmed kobolds should do it) and enter every room from above.

And don't forget to sell off all the adamantine and mithril doors, vaults, valves etc - woo hoo cashola!

Whatever you do don't form up with a hardy band of adventurers and enter the tomb to explore it. This is an excavation not a combat mission.

Now see here... this is precisely the sort of logic and intellectual rigor that has absolutely no place in the game of Dungeons & Dragons! ;) These are the sorts of actions that an organization or city planning commission would undertake, not the fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants adventuring group would follow!

D&D "dungeon crawling" adventuring groups are the equivalent of the people who jump off cliffs in wingsuits or deep dive without scuba gear into those deep holes in the ocean floor or freeclimb vertical mountain faces without any safety gear on. 99.999% of society look at them and asks "What possible reason is there for risking your life like that for conceivably no return?" And invariably the answer is "Why not?" Dungeon crawlers in the world of D&D are the same way-- delving into magically sealed and defended areas with no knowledge of what is going on inside, risking their lives for no reason other than the excitement and the hope of untold riches within (despite having no real knowledge such riches even exist.) No average person would risk their lives for that-- going in through the front door and just "seeing what happens" based upon their skill alone. They'd do exactly what you suggested in your list... not play fair (according to the tropes of the D&D "dungeon crawling" game.) :)
 
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Personally, I find a number of the trap encounters far too arbitrary to be interesting. You've got a 2 in three chance of dying at the entrance, and, outside of something like Contact other Plane or other "Please Mr. DM, can you give us a hint" type spells, there's no reason to try one over another. It's far too aribitrary for my tastes. I mean, good grief, you need to find what, some 11 secret doors, including one hidden inside a pit trap, in order to complete this module. Fail any one of those find secret doors checks, and you're SOL, you cannot actually find Acerak.

Certainly not to my tastes anymore.

So, while I am a big fan of the module and would list it in the top 5 best of all time, I have numerous complaints large and small against the module. Although I know where you are coming from, I would phrase them slightly differently than you do.

The modules biggest problem isn't the arbitrary nature of the traps, but the fact that the module as written tends to specify a list of arbitrary solutions to each problem the module presents and explicitly excludes all others.

So for example, you complain about the initial three entrances to the tomb, claiming that there is a 2 in 3 chance of dying. But I think this analysis is flawed. For one thing, the collapsing stone trap entrance 'only' does 5-50 damage. That's not enough to ensure a TPK given the levels of the PC's. Even the thief is likely to be 11th level or so, and therefore have enough hit points to survive an average roll. And a 9th or 10th level fighter is almost certain to survive even a harsh roll. And let's keep in mind, at this level you can have 9th level clerics, who can raise dead if they have a body on hand to raise. So if you did get hit by the collapsing stone trap, at most you'd expect it to be a set back that the party could deal with.

The really problematic entrance is the one with the sliding block trap, and that's only because the text lists a few arbitrary magical solutions and excludes all others. That might be reasonable for tournament play when you are trying to ensure all the refs rule the same on the main situations that come up, but it's not reasonable in general and even from a tournament play perspective many of the listed solutions are somewhat arbitrary as to why they work and others don't. Why not 'stone shape'? Would planeshift or teleport work? What about oil of etherealness? PC's have potentially lots of solutions at this level, many just as reasonable as the official ones the text lists. It's not the arbitrary nature of the problems that bother me, but the arbitrary nature of the solutions.

Nowhere is that more of a problem than in what I consider to be the modules one entirely unfair encounter, and that is with Acererak himself. Exactly what harms the demi-lich is one of the most arbitrary lists in history, and the module provides not only zero clues to the solution but the things you need to have a reasonable chance of beating the demi-lich are not to be found in the module. Indeed, a quick look at the pregenerated characters shows that basically none of them have what they need to take down the demilich before being destroyed. The spell resources they need are mostly above their level. The weapons they need they don't have. And the spells and weapons aren't to be found in the dungeon. By contrast, every single other problem in the dungeon has a solution which some area of the dungeon contains an answer to. Need a magic ring? There is a room containing one. Need 10 large gems? There is a room that contains them. Need true seeing to overcome a puzzle? There is an item in the tomb that provides that effect.

Now, on a metalevel this makes a bit of sense. Acererak wants heroes to overcome his traps, but doesn't want to be defeated. But as module design, giving players no real way to win is just bad. You could easily tweak the meta to have Acererak so confident he can't be defeated, that he's left the gear players need to defeat him hidden in different parts of the dungeon - a power word: kill scroll painted on plaster that can be carefully removed from the wall if recognized, 3 forget wizard scrolls in a trapped chest, a room containing a lethal trap which if somehow evaded allows the party to claim at the least +4 sword, and so forth. That would vastly improve the design of the module conceptually.

One of the best things about the module is Acererak's taunting of the players manages to make a static passive foe into a memorable reoccurring NPC - and one you come to hate. But I think that aspect though could be made even stronger.

Finally, the tomb is far to amendable to solutions that evade it. By far the best approach in my opinion is to go Bellock rather than Indiana Jones, thereby rendering looting the whole tomb into more of a business endeavor than a fabulous adventure. All that fantastic color in the tomb just becomes more loot, and indeed the tomb itself is in many cases worth more than the treasure that is in it. For example, the mithral vault and the adamantium doors are probably worth more than most kingdoms.

But these complaints don't detract completely from the many things the module does get right, or from how it usually plays for experienced players who don't start thinking out of the box until they get in the tomb and realize they need to.
 
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