Is TOMB OF HORRORS the Worst Adventure Of All Time?

Prevailing opinion here in the EN World community has traditionally held that the worst adventure module of all time is 1984's The Forest Oracle. 7th Sea designer John Wick (whose upcoming edition of 7th Sea is the third most anticipated tabletop RPG of 2016) vehemently disagrees; he nominates the classic adventure Tomb of Horrors for that position, contending that it "represents all the wrong, backward thinking that people have about being a GM." In an article on his blog (warning: this uses a lot of strong language), he goes into great detail as to why he hold this opinion, stating that the adventure is the "worst, &#@&$&@est, most disgusting piece of pig vomit ever published".

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[lQ]"My players picked the entrance with the long corridor rather than the two other entrances which are instant kills. That’s right, out of the three ways to enter the tomb, two of them are designed to give the GM the authority for a TPK."[/lQ]

Very strong words, and you can read them all here. As I mentioned before, there's lots of NSFW language there.

The article also includes an anecdote about a convention game in which he participated. In that game, being already familiar with the adventure and its traps (and having advised the DM of this), he played a thief and attempted to discover or deactivate the traps, up until a near TPK occurred and he left the game.

Wick is, of course, no stranger to controversy. A couple of years ago, he created widespread internet arguments when he stated that "The first four editions of D&D are not roleplaying games."

 

[Zak S]

If you actually had to work your characters up to tenth level, instead of just rolling them up I'd say no way.

So you are saying the records (including from tournaments) of people having done this and won are fabricated?

Again: how deep does the conspiracy you're imagining go?

 

[GameDaddy]

Hrrrm? You still want me to guess about the tournaments? ok... based on my experience...

I'd say they won at tournament, I'd also say that they had some previous exposure to this particular adventure. Like an insider knowledge level of exposure.

In our local group, in Colorado, we just didn't play that way. Also in our group RPGs weren't really considered as a proper venue for competition. Wargames, Board Wargames, and Simulations with referees and judges were where we sought to get ranked, and where we kept score.

 

[werecorpse]

Pick apart the practicalities and economics of things built by crazy wizards for inexplicable crazy reasons (in-world) and transparently to create a challenge for players (out of world) as if the quality of the product depended on that.

Thanks for the reply.

I guess my issue is that on the one hand the potential critics of the adventure are chastised for not being sufficiently logical or for being too gamey in the way they approach the adventure and not thinking outside the box. On the other if you examine the adventure itself in a "logical" way consistent with the world you're "picking apart the practicalities"

edit: and you praise a group as playing intelligently for using the value of the doors to hire a dwarven kingdom - that's using the economics and practicalities of the dungeon design.

 

[werecorpse]

So you are saying the records (including from tournaments) of people having done this and won are fabricated?

Again: how deep does the conspiracy you're imagining go?

What do you mean by winning?

Do you mean destroying the demilich or just getting further in a tournament than someone else? (The only one I have read has the demilich being destroyed by using a method that is not one of the eight methods listed as the only way to harm it)

are there records of people working there way up to tenth level and then going through the adventure and winning?

I would be interested in reading their accounts.

 

[GameDaddy]

Are there records of people working there way up to tenth level and then going through the adventure and winning?

I would be interested in reading their accounts.

Ditto on that. I'd find that very interesting.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I do belive that the only way to win at this horrable adventure is to cheat... and I do belive it is a bad adaventure, that is not to say "No one ever had fun with it" I have no doubt people had fun with a lot of bad games...

Mario Maker is a new type of video game that reminds me a lot of D&D (no it's not an RPG, but you build a level and then others go through it.) There are 'good levels' there are 'bad levels' and there are 'fun levels'... not all good levels are fun for everyone, some are just too easy (just like any game) some people go out of there way to make bad levels fun... go search out the super beard bros or Game grumps and watch them play. They can explain much better then I can why some levels are just bad design...

I doubt the ToH is the worst ever written (to be honest I clicked hoping to hear about brigands and bandits not running)


The moduel requires an amount of meta game thinking, and power gaming that some will find fun, but in the end is almost unplaybul as written. As was pointed out up thread read streaight with the pregen characters the Demi lich can not be beat, the 8 ways are not avalibul to those characters... that alone makes it unplayable as written.

and before I get accused of beliving is some strange conspiracy, I belive that with work it CAN be made to be playbul, and those are the stories you are hearing...

 

[Eric V]

Thanks for the reply.

I guess my issue is that on the one hand the potential critics of the adventure are chastised for not being sufficiently logical or for being too gamey in the way they approach the adventure and not thinking outside the box. On the other if you examine the adventure itself in a "logical" way consistent with the world you're "picking apart the practicalities"

Well put.

While I think the module itself is kind of garbage, it DID inspire Return to the Tomb of Horrors (by Bruce Cordell), and that one is one of my favs, so silver linings and all that.

 

[Celebrim]

The moduel requires an amount of meta game thinking, and power gaming that some will find fun, but in the end is almost unplaybul as written. As was pointed out up thread read streaight with the pregen characters the Demi lich can not be beat, the 8 ways are not avalibul to those characters... that alone makes it unplayable as written.

Your referencing my words and you aren't understanding them.

In the context of 1e AD&D, winning is not beating the monster. Winning is getting the treasure out of the dungeon. And by some measures, Tomb of Horrors is such an easy module that 1st level characters could get the treasure out of the dungeon successfully. In that sense, it's one of the most fair and playable modules ever written, because almost every other module mostly comes down to 'did we roll well at the right times'.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Your referencing my words and you aren't understanding them.

no I understand them completely, and you disagree with the opionon and conclusion I draw from them, but instead of disagreeing you pretend I didn't understand...

In the context of 1e AD&D, winning is not beating the monster.

in the context of the entire edtion, nope I can agree. D&D (Any edition) is a role playing game that is "Won" when your character survives to go on his next adventure...

Winning is getting the treasure out of the dungeon.

I disagree, it could be A goal, but it is not winning, it is just advanceing to the next stage. As long as you are playing you are winning...

And by some measures, Tomb of Horrors is such an easy module that 1st level characters could get the treasure out of the dungeon successfully.

by some measures... OK, now we get into the menusa. The Mario Maker example I pulled says it best... there is good and bad design, but sitting around with a bu
nch of your friends jokeing can be fun even in bad design, they set up lots of lets plays going through "bad levels" or "Troll levels" not because those levels are well designed, but because of the fun of the let player talking...

In that sense, it's one of the most fair and playable modules ever written,

I thank you for showing me you can't be objective at all...

because almost every other module mostly comes down to 'did we roll well at the right times'.

wait... my home brew system is better then FATAL there for my system is good... setting a low bar then saying you cleared it isn't very good, especially since I started off with "It isn't the worst, but it's bad"

 

[Celebrim]

no I understand them completely, and you disagree with the opionon and conclusion I draw from them, but instead of disagreeing you pretend I didn't understand...

Just as long as you aren't pretending that I said the module is unplayable, you can draw whatever inane conclusions from my points you like.

I disagree, it could be A goal, but it is not winning, it is just advanceing to the next stage. As long as you are playing you are winning...

For example, if this is true, then it can't also be true that the fact that there is no fair way to kill Acererak if the text is strictly adhered to cannot be said to make the module unplayable. You just have to recognize that winning is just advancing to the next stage, preferably with a ton of XP.

I thank you for showing me you can't be objective at all...

Back at you.