Is Whirling Frenzy balanced against Rage?

[hong]

OK, thanks for the feedback. I want to open the the UA variants for my next campaign, but was a bit concerned about balance issues.

Another question: if the character was in WF and got Hasted, would he get two bonus attacks per round, or still just one?

Just one.

 

[hanniball]

OK, thanks for the feedback. I want to open the the UA variants for my next campaign, but was a bit concerned about balance issues.

Another question: if the character was in WF and got Hasted, would he get two bonus attacks per round, or still just one?

It's definitely balanced, but appears to be quite a bit more powerful if the character is only planning on dipping into Barbarian. If the career path includes all 20 levels of Barb, I'd go with normal rage. The bonus to Con and Indomitable Will easily make up for the extra attack, IMO.

Haste would "stack" with WF granting 2 total additional attacks. I tend to stick to the "it stacks unless it says otherwise" dictum.

Either way...just my 2 cp

 

[Destil]

Per RAW two extra attacks (all at a -1 to hit: -2 for frenzy and +1 for haste), just like a hasted monk making a flurry of blows (before the really good flurry bonuses at higher level).

 

[griff_goodbeard]

Just one.

Which IMO is another balancing factor ofthe WF varient. At high levels, there are a lot of ways to get that extra attack.

 

[Nifft]

One house-rule suggestion: beef up regular Rage so that the extra hit points for having one's Con increase are treated like temporary hit points. This makes ending Rage a lot less dangerous without granting any extra bonus while within Rage.

With that adjustment, I'd say the two are balanced: extra hit points vs. extra AC.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Kmart Kommando]

Play a Warblade and concentrate in Tiger Claw and Iron Heart maneuvers, and a smattering of Diamond Mind. It'll come out just as good as Whirling Frenzy, without the downsides of raging or its variants.

 

[Darklone]

For twohanded weapon fighters: Definitely allow the extra attack only with full attack actions.

Greatcleaving barbarians of Doom with Whirling Frenzy and Power Attack will haunt you in your sleep otherwise. Imagine a level 6 barbarian kill the level 9 fighter BBEG and all his minions with one funny little charge.

 

[shmoo2]

Haste would "stack" with WF granting 2 total additional attacks. I tend to stick to the "it stacks unless it says otherwise" dictum.

Except the Haste spell specifically says it does not stack with other effects granting an extra attack:

Haste
Transmutation
Level: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 3

The transmuted creatures move and act more quickly than normal. This extra speed has several effects.

When making a full attack action, a hasted creature may make one extra attack with any weapon he is holding. The attack is made using the creature’s full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This effect is not cumulative with similar effects, such as that provided by a weapon of speed, nor does it actually grant an extra action, so you can’t use it to cast a second spell or otherwise take an extra action in the round.)

 

[DarkKestral]

I would disagree that a WF is a haste effect, like a weapon of speed or the haste spell is. I would classify them as two separate types of effect. WF would be a Rage effect.

 

[hanniball]

Except the Haste spell specifically says it does not stack with other effects granting an extra attack:

Would you not allow a Hasted Monk to gain two additional attacks while Flurrying?