Is WoTC even relevant to you anymore?

[Zaruthustran]

By your own admission - you're buying all those crunch-heavy splat books, and yet complain that it takes 25 hours to create an 8th level Wizard? I can create one in less than 30 minutes. But then, I'm just using the PHB.

Yep. I'm well aware that I'm a prisoner of my own device. No one is forcing me to use all those books, consider all those feats. But I'm a completist; that's how I choose to play.

 

[Hussar]

So long as you stick to the Core Rules, you're correct.



You've just added something outside the core rules so your whole "smoothly integrated ruleset" argument is thrown out the window. All balance went out the window as soon as the splat books started being published, so a DM has to take care to pick and choose what will and will not be allowed. There are too many broken rules in everything outside the Core, and denying the DM the capability to ban things makes the player making those demands irresponsible. Plus, you're forcing the DM to buy something s/he may not own. that's not such a good idea.

YOu are joking right? Really? What are the three most powerful classes in the game?

The whole "Rules bloat is causing rampant power leap" is just false.

 

[der_kluge]

Yep. I'm well aware that I'm a prisoner of my own device. No one is forcing me to use all those books, consider all those feats. But I'm a completist; that's how I choose to play.

Then you can't complain about it!!

 

[Thurbane]

I'm sure you'll find plenty of WOTC haters on this board. Was this supposed to be a discussion, or a gathering of yes-men?

Where do I sign up?

...I've had my grievances with WotC, but they are still my primary source of D&D material. Most of my games are basically core-only, so I don't really need much in the way of splat books.

 

[Uder]

This is so far from the truth it was the first post that compelled me to comment.

DMs are our single most important customer type and everyone in the both R&D and Brand knows it.

Knowing and KNOWING seem to be two different things. WotC seems to me to be made up of people who play games for a living, not a quick pastime. It's hard to DM a homebrew AD&D game once you get into Real Life (TM). It's near impossible with 3E.

There is a philosophy out there that says that 3E is all about "player entitlement." I used to laugh at this, but it's becoming truer and truer to me as time goes on and I see more of the design philosophy behind the books. It also fosters metagame thinking, just in that no book is off-limits and the game plays most smoothly when players know all the rules (all 8,000 pages). I think the DM should be the boss (the boss of FUN), and things like "when the player points at something in the book and asks if he can buy it, the answer should be yes," really make me stop and wonder how and why the game has changed so much. Players, looking in the books? My GOD MAN! What's next?


Edit: Italicized part added, since I don't know anyone from WotC, and of course there are a lot of freelancers who contribute to the mountains of material.

 

[Scott_Rouse]

Knowing and KNOWING seem to be two different things. WotC seems to me to be made up of people who play games for a living, not a quick pastime. It's hard to DM a homebrew AD&D game once you get into Real Life (TM). It's near impossible with 3E.

There is a philosophy out there that says that 3E is all about "player entitlement." I used to laugh at this, but it's becoming truer and truer to me as time goes on and I see more of the design philosophy behind the books. It also fosters metagame thinking, just in that no book is off-limits and the game plays most smoothly when players know all the rules (all 8,000 pages). I think the DM should be the boss (the boss of FUN), and things like "when the player points at something in the book and asks if he can buy it, the answer should be yes," really make me stop and wonder how and why the game has changed so much. Players, looking in the books? My GOD MAN! What's next?


Edit: Italicized part added, since I don't know anyone from WotC, and of course there are a lot of freelancers who contribute to the mountains of material.

I see your point. We certainly can/will do more to make the DMs job easier. We have made some in-roads here but we have really have only begun to scratch the surface.

 

[Greg K]

Their relevance is very limited to me beyond the d20 licence, d20M license, OGL and an occassional book. The designers and developers at WOTC produce very little that I like and many of their design decisions are making them less relevant -the exception being dedicated Monster books (e.g., Fiendish Codex I, Lords of Madness)

DND: There are maybe a dozen WOTC D&D books (including core) dating back to 3.0 that are, IMO, worth owning at full price while another half dozen or so worth getting at a 50% discount (e.g. Complete Arcane, Complete Warrior, PHB2). The rest are either on my banned list (e.g., Book of Exalted Deeds, Expanded Psionics Handbook, Magic of Incarnum and Tome of Battle) or have so little content (1-10 pages at best) that I would allow that I would not recommend my players buy them for use in the games I run (e.g., Complete Adventurer, Complete Champion, and Races of Destiny).

I get far more use out of third party supplements including supplements by people that have done work on WOTC products I did't care for.

D20 Modern: The corebook (excluding the FX rules which I dislike) is decent. However, if it were not for several outstanding third party products (e.g., Blood and Fists, Elements of Magic: ME, and Psychic's Handbook), I would not even be playing it.

Star Wars: No interest in the current addition The decisions involving skills and use of per encounter for the force both negate any improvements the designers made in another areas and turned me off to the game.

 

[Aussiegamer]

After getting the Exp to Undermountain I will NEVER be buying another WotC book ever again.

Poor maps, too small to actually use and no info linked to a spot on the map.

poor editing, this seems to have become a trait for WotC over the last several books released.

It was nearly impossible to link stuff to each area.

the mini-adventures were interesting but come on why so a level! what a cop out.

[Rant continues]

And they can stick were the sun don't shine the 4e stuff, man talk about out for the quick buck!

If you check the modern site on the WotC area they have totally forgotten about it, and look to be sidelined forever as it has not been updated for 6 months....

 

[Numion]

WotC will be that much more relevant to me when they publish 4E. SW Saga showed the design skills of WotC staff very nicely. If the can make similar innovations and streamlining (while keeping detailed customization of PCs)(note: I dont want D&D saga, something new) in D&D, I'll be a very happy customer.

 

[Raven Crowking]

I see your point. We certainly can/will do more to make the DMs job easier. We have made some in-roads here but we have really have only begun to scratch the surface.

That would (potentially) make a big difference to the way I view WotC's products.