Is WoTC even relevant to you anymore?

[Piratecat]

WotC is supporting, publicizing, and encouraging play. They're working to make the hobby grow and attract new players. If they were publishing no books and still doing this effectively, they'd still be extremely relevant to me.

And yes, I like many WotC books. I don't need them, but I like them. With careful application of judgment, they make my game more fun.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I absolutely look to Wizards of the Coast as the authority on new rules system and expansions - there's a good reason that the remaining 3rd parties are focusing on adventures over class books.

That's kind of funny. Isn't that exactly what they predicted the market would look like when they were first conceiving the OGL? WotC making all the big splatbooks and codexes, with the third-party publishers putting out adventures.

That isn't what happened at first. If my memory serves me, at first, everyone put out a bunch of books that kind of flopped and the d20 market imploded, leaving only a handful of 3rd party companies standing out of the dozens that appeared at the beginning. Then, with those guys publishing mostly sourcebooks in competition with Wizards, Dungeon stepped up as the best place to get published adventures. Dungeon was shipped off to Paizo, and WotC focused almost entirely on its splatbooks, abandoning its early efforts to produce adventures, and generally distancing itself from them. Dungeon blossomed and turned into the Adventure Path Factory, Wizards won the splatbook cold war, with most of the better 3rd party companies going off and doing their own niche projects (non-D&D d20 stuff, mostly), and now about the only thing left for a 3rd party publisher to make for D&D is adventures, because everything else has pretty much been done, and it's an easy way to keep from directly competing with the 800-pound gorilla. Even Wizards has started to get back into them, I think in part because it takes off some of the pressure of the "we need to ship # titles this year" demands of the bean-counters, and makes for easy tie-ins to the miniatures line.

Funny how things turned out in the end to resemble what had been envisioned. Also funny how convoluted the path was to get there.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

WotC is supporting, publicizing, and encouraging play. They're working to make the hobby grow and attract new players.

You know, I've never seen any evidence of this. I don't doubt that somewhere on the planet, money is being spent to attract attention to the hobby, but aside from getting the books on the shelf and running the D&D website, I've personally never seen any WotC-led efforts to make D&D more popular. Not a single ad spot, not a "try D&D" event, not a marketing campaign (viral or otherwise), not even a flyer stuck into an alternative weekly paper. Nada. I'm aware of World Wide D&D Game Day, but I've never seen a FLGS that does more than put up a few posters, maybe try to run some demos. Certainly nothing that would give the impression that WotC had a hand in trying to coordinate anything. At any rate, that's one event per year.

What is it that they're doing to try to attract people to D&D, and why don't I ever see any evidence of it?

 

[w_earle_wheeler]

What is it that they're doing to try to attract people to D&D, and why don't I ever see any evidence of it?

There is National D&D Day. Stores can opt to get adventures and miniatures to use for one-shot demos in the store.

I've seen D&D ads in comic books on occasion.

 

[Gothmog]

Well, I certainly enjoy gaming and GM'ing, but I think over the last few years, WoTC's "flavor" (which I'll describe as crunch-heavy anime) does not suit my tastes.

But you'll always be welcome at my table. You just can't play a Warlock.

Huh. Thats an interesting way of putting it- I guess thats pretty much the reason I don't care for the WotC stuff anymore. I know Bo9S gets tons of love, but I couldn't stand it. It really reminded me of anime and wuxia, which I despise.

So no, WotC isn't relevant to me at all anymore. When we game, we use four systems alsomst exclusively. We play Savage Worlds most, followed by WHFRP2, True 20, and NWoD. I haven't played a D20 game in over 2 years, and don't have any intention of going back. So what WotC does and the content of their new books isn't of any interest to me.

 

[Vocenoctum]

You know, I've never seen any evidence of this. I don't doubt that somewhere on the planet, money is being spent to attract attention to the hobby, but aside from getting the books on the shelf and running the D&D website, I've personally never seen any WotC-led efforts to make D&D more popular. Not a single ad spot,

You've never seen the D&D ads? I've seen them in Video game magazines here and there. (and of course Dragon, but that probably doesn't count)

not a "try D&D" event,

discounting the Game Day, of course.

not a marketing campaign (viral or otherwise),

it's been a while since I saw D&D ad's online, excepting the ones here at ENWorld of course, since I suppose they don't count either.

not even a flyer stuck into an alternative weekly paper. Nada. I'm aware of World Wide D&D Game Day, but I've never seen a FLGS that does more than put up a few posters, maybe try to run some demos. Certainly nothing that would give the impression that WotC had a hand in trying to coordinate anything. At any rate, that's one event per year.

Sure, just the one event.
+ the materials they give gaming stores
+the con presence
+ sending out squishy brains...

What is it that they're doing to try to attract people to D&D, and why don't I ever see any evidence of it?

I dunno, I can see how you might not consider these things much, but... well, what have the OTHER RPG companies done, above and beyond WotC's stuff?

 

[Vocenoctum]

They need to take serious notes from Green Ronin, Goodman Games, Expeditious Retreat, Troll Lord Games, etc... on customer service and customer satisfaction, which equals customer respect. If small companies can do it, big companies sure can. They just don't because it doesn't "pay" enough to do so.

Actually, it's the opposite. A small company doesn't have to check with anyone before posting. Pramas can post the will of Green Ronin and not worry about being contradicted or chastized. Even Rouse doesn't have that freedom.

That said, what D&Dish material, aside from adventures, have you bought from other than WotC in the last year?

I just wonder if the "WotC is irrelevant" is because of others making superior D&D, or because the people have moved away from D&D.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

Just for the record, I do think WotC is relevant, but my remarks need clarification.

Sure, The shape of their upcoming rules crunch really aligns with my gaming direction at the moment.

I have no strong gaming direction at this moment.
WotC's schedule is crunch light.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

and of course Dragon, but that probably doesn't count)

Well, it hardly brings new people into the game...

discounting the Game Day, of course.

Discounting it because I've never seen any evidence that the game day is taken seriously by game stores, and because there are 364 other days that they presumably could be promoting D&D during.

Sure, just the one event.
+ the materials they give gaming stores
+the con presence
+ sending out squishy brains...

What materials? I've seen posters sometimes. When they released 3.5, I saw a bin of fireball templates with an ad on the back (which were mostly still there 16 months later, when they pitched them). And the con presence is pretty much akin to advertising in Dragon. Preaching to the converted, so to speak.

I dunno, I can see how you might not consider these things much, but... well, what have the OTHER RPG companies done, above and beyond WotC's stuff?

That's hardly the issue. Just because other companies aren't doing any advertising or promotion doesn't mean that WotC's advertising and promotion is top-rate. Or perceivable. It's not something that's measured on a relative basis. You're spending X dollars and getting Y new players per month. I don't doubt that WotC is doing what it can with the budget alloted, but I don't know if the sum of its efforts is worth holding up as an example of how to promote an RPG.

 

[Greylock]

I've stopped buying WotC books entirely. The last Wizards book I bought was either Tome of Magic or Dragon Magic. And the last several Wizards books I've bought all ended up being traded away. Mostly for 1st Edition books.

I'm still spending way too much money on RPGs. Recently, Aces & Eights, some old Dragonstar books, Rifts, Castles & Crusades, a slew of Necromancer and Goodman Games stuff, all the latest Paizo releases. I'm even picking up some 2nd Edition books when I can.

Wizards of the Coast? Irrelevant to me now. Their releases simply don't "speak" to me anymore. My group has largely turned away from 3.5, but someday I still want to play it again. But the third party material I've collected over the years pleases me more than most of the WotC material.