Is WotC still the industry LEADER?

[Hussar]

I was mulling this over today on my walk to work. And I was thinking about the point that WOTC is/is not the leader it was.

So, let's look at days gone by when we mostly agree that it was the leader. They gave us the OGL. Probably the single biggest change on the hobby since White Wolf. Yup, no disagreement here. They led the charge to bring gaming back and everyone followed. Lots of companies over the years have come out with their own versions of an SRD and many have d20'd their game and tied it to the original SRD.

Ok, there's the leadership of yesteryear.

Fast forward to today. What is WOTC doing. Let's gloss over this current kerfuffle, because, IMO, it's too early to really say one way or another if this is a big deal or not. It might be, it might not be. I don't know.

But, let's look at what WOTC IS doing. The DDI. They are the only (AFAIK) gaming company that is embracing online media and combining it with PnP gaming. No one else has done this before. No other company has anything like the Rules Compendium - where the published books are added within weeks of release. Same with the Character Generator.

Now, they have misstepped. Gleemax is a big bloody pothole right there.

But, the online subscription thing is starting to gather steam. Monte Cook has jumped at the model. Paizo is kinda sorta doing it as well with their Pathfinder stuff - part print, part pdf. How long do you think it will be before other gaming companies start doing similar things? If the DDI really picks up steam (and that's a big IF), how long will it be before we see a White Wolf version of the DDI along with dedicated game table?

I think saying that WOTC is no longer the leader is ignoring what they are doing. What other gaming company is making podcasts with Internet celebs? What other gaming company grants money to college gaming groups (from the Expand your Role - 2007 - are they still doing this?) What other gaming company spends thousands, and probably tens of thousands, on maintaining organized RPG play (ok, White Wolf probably does this too )?

The point being, I don't think you can look at this one thing and decide that WOTC is abandoning gamers. Yes, there are those out there who are pissed at WOTC and will continue to be so. But, try to be objective about it.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

But, the online subscription thing is starting to gather steam. Monte Cook has jumped at the model. Paizo is kinda sorta doing it as well with their Pathfinder stuff - part print, part pdf.

Waitasec.

Are you saying Paizo followed WotC, here?

 

[Hussar]

Waitasec.

Are you saying Paizo followed WotC, here?

When did Pathfinder pick up steam? When was DDI announced? Granted, they are both about the same time. But, do you really think Pathfinder is taking advantage of online tools to the extent DDI is?

And, in my mind this is the better question, do you think that the DDI model won't be adopted by RPG companies in the future?

 

[Mark]

When did Pathfinder pick up steam?

Wasn't the Pathfinder model basically a replacement for (and built to essentially mimic) the magazine model that was being removed by the loss of the licenses?

 

[Jeff Wilder]

When did Pathfinder pick up steam? When was DDI announced? Granted, they are both about the same time. But, do you really think Pathfinder is taking advantage of online tools to the extent DDI is?

Dude, you listed Paizo's print-plus-PDF -- which they were doing significantly before DDI -- as an example of a company following WotC as a leader. I called you on it. That was the extent of my comment. If you're now backing off your claim, go in peace.

 

[Wicht]

I can't see much relationship at all between the Pathfinder free PDF model and the DDI continued subscription model.

Pathfinder - I pay for a monthly subscription to a physical product and as a bonus I get digital copies of my physical purchase. As a subscriber I also get an in-store discount. If I ever cancel my subscription I get to keep both the physical and the digital copies.

DDI - I would pay a monthly subscription for digiital products, including digital magazines. If I then canceled my subscription I would be left with...? Nothing I believe. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Edit: Kobold Quarterly also provides the same Physical plus PDF subscription, though I don't know if they were doing it before Paizo. I was thinking that it was modeled after Paizo's but they could both be based on some third party example for all I know.

 

[wedgeski]

DDI - I would pay a monthly subscription for digiital products, including digital magazines. If I then canceled my subscription I would be left with...? Nothing I believe. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Okay. Download Dungeon and Dragon compiled PDF's as soon as they're released, back up to removable media, ensure safe-keeping. Job done.

 

[Wicht]

Okay. Download Dungeon and Dragon compiled PDF's as soon as they're released, back up to removable media, ensure safe-keeping. Job done.

I am not a subscriber to DDI (not a 4e player, not a huge fan of digital only mediums) so I do not know what all is in PDF form and what is not. I take it then that the WotC no PDF policy does not extend to compiled Dungeon or Dragon issues then. Are the individual articles PDF? How much more of DDI is in PDF form and how much is online read only material?

Not that it matters much in the discussion, there is still a big difference between the Paizo subscription model and the WotC subscription model.

 

[Hussar]

Dude, you listed Paizo's print-plus-PDF -- which they were doing significantly before DDI -- as an example of a company following WotC as a leader. I called you on it. That was the extent of my comment. If you're now backing off your claim, go in peace.

Really? What print plus PDF were they doing "significantly" before DDI? Other than the web enhancements which contain the maps and some of the art from Dungeon, they had next to no online material. Dragon had a couple of pdf bonus goodies, but that was about it.

So, cut and pasting the maps and art from one magazine counts as a significant effort?

Now, I will totally agree that they have really stepped that up after Dungeon and Dragon went back to WOTC. Now you have the Pathfinder Chronicles Blog, for example. Again, something that was never present before the switchover.

Note, I am by no means trying to knock Paizo's efforts here. They are doing great stuff. Fantastic stuff. Wonderful stuff with amazingness all over it.

But, let's not start rewriting history here. Paizo's entire online efforts before the changeover consisted of a monthly pdf collecting the maps and art from Dungeon.

 

[Hussar]

I am not a subscriber to DDI (not a 4e player, not a huge fan of digital only mediums) so I do not know what all is in PDF form and what is not. I take it then that the WotC no PDF policy does not extend to compiled Dungeon or Dragon issues then. Are the individual articles PDF? How much more of DDI is in PDF form and how much is online read only material?

Not that it matters much in the discussion, there is still a big difference between the Paizo subscription model and the WotC subscription model.

Actually, no, the only difference between the two subscription models is you get a print product from Paizo, which you pay for.

AFAIK, currently, each Dungeon and Dragon article is an individual pdf file which you gain access to with your subscription. I do not believe that you gain access to a back library, but, I too am not a subscriber, so I'm not sure about that.

However, you get both magazines in a digital format that you can stick on your computer the day it hits the site.

About the only thing that isn't available offline is the Rules Compendium, AFAIK.

So, what is the huge difference between the subscription models?