Is WotC still the industry LEADER?

[Wicht]

So, what is the huge difference between the subscription models?

Okay, the similarities are that they are both monthly subscriptions.

The differences is that Paizo's is primarily a physical book subscription with free digital and shopping benefits. It is not a subscription to a ruleset or electronic tools (in point of fact I believe Paizo will end up with a free online ruleset similar to the d20 srd). At the end of the month you have at least one new physical, paper, dead tree book. You also have a pdf. If you cancel your subscription you still have the books and access to redownloading the PDFS.

WotC provides a monthly subscription to an electronic platform with complimentary digital benefits. You have to pay to have access to their online rules (if I understand right). I guess at the end of the month you have some PDFs. If you cancel your subscription you have access only to what you stored and cannot redownload your subscriptions. edit:And I do not believe you get 10% off your other WotC books for having a DDI membership.

Seems like two different animals to me. Paizo's is modeled more after traditional monthly magazine subscriptions. WotC's is modeled more after online gaming platforms. If they seem the same to you because they are both monthly subscriptions, I guess thats alright but I think its a stretch for anyone to suggest Paizo's subscription model is evidence of WotC's leadership and example-setting.

 

[Hussar]

Okay, the similarities are that they are both monthly subscriptions.

The differences is that Paizo's is primarily a physical book subscription with free digital and shopping benefits. It is not a subscription to a ruleset or electronic tools (in point of fact I believe Paizo will end up with a free online ruleset similar to the d20 srd). At the end of the month you have at least one new physical, paper, dead tree book. You also have a pdf. If you cancel your subscription you still have the books and access to redownloading the PDFS.

WotC provides a monthly subscription to an electronic platform with complimentary digital benefits. You have to pay to have access to their online rules (if I understand right). I guess at the end of the month you have some PDFs. If you cancel your subscription you have access only to what you stored and cannot redownload your subscriptions. edit:And I do not believe you get 10% off your other WotC books for having a DDI membership.

Seems like two different animals to me. Paizo's is modeled more after traditional monthly magazine subscriptions. WotC's is modeled more after online gaming platforms. If they seem the same to you because they are both monthly subscriptions, I guess thats alright but I think its a stretch for anyone to suggest Paizo's subscription model is evidence of WotC's leadership and example-setting.

Actually, I wasn't really talking about their subscription model, Jeff Wilder took it that way though. I was talking about their online presence. Thus the "kinda-sorta" part of my original comment. I agree with pretty much everything you've said here. They are both subscriptions, so there's going to be similarities - you pay a monthly fee for content. The shape of that content is different, and that's groovy.

Do you get discounts off WOTC books? Nope. But, by the same token, a DDI sub is considerably cheaper than a Pathfinder one, particularly if you don't happen to live in the US. Try subbing to Pathfinder from Japan and see the difference.

This is all sidetracking from my original point. WOTC is leading here in one way. They are moving very much to a digital format. This is something that a number of other RPG companies are going to follow in all likelihood. We're seeing the stirrings of that already.

 

[Wicht]

If Paizo went to an all digital format they would almost certainly lose my business. I started checking out Paizo a few years ago because I was at a point in my life where I was again able to afford a monthly subscription and was planning on getting Dungeon. An all digital Dungeon magazine (4e aside) has been such a non-mover with me that I have yet to check out a single issue or adventure from it. Paizo offered a subscription to their new AP as an alternative and I have been onboard since issue 1, waiting eagerly for my paper book to arrive in the mail. I download the PDF before I get the book, scan it through to look at art and then don't bother with the PDF again until I am ready to run the adventure. Electronic reading for fun is not my idea of a leisure activity.

 

[Mark]

This is all sidetracking from my original point. WOTC is leading here in one way. They are moving very much to a digital format. This is something that a number of other RPG companies are going to follow in all likelihood. We're seeing the stirrings of that already.

PDF is a digital format, and WotC was late to that party.

 

[Odhanan]

I will say this: I miss the minds that made the OGL happen, that saved D&D from the death throes of TSR, and that craved that sort of "if everyone wins, I win" attitude.

This. Quoted for F&%&** Truth.

 

[darjr]

AFAIK, currently, each Dungeon and Dragon article is an individual pdf file which you gain access to with your subscription. I do not believe that you gain access to a back library, but, I too am not a subscriber, so I'm not sure about that.

I know you get access to the back library of compiled issues. I also think that the articles themselves remain in the article archive.

 

[Pramas]

It's been more than a decade since SJG transformed Pyramid from a print magazine to a subscription based online magazine.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Really? What print plus PDF were they doing "significantly" before DDI?

My Pathfinder subscription is on issue 19. They've given me a high-quality PDF from the beginning. That's at least a year and a half, and that's significantly before the DDI.

Other than the web enhancements which contain the maps and some of the art from Dungeon, they had next to no online material. Dragon had a couple of pdf bonus goodies, but that was about it.

[...]

But, let's not start rewriting history here. Paizo's entire online efforts before the changeover consisted of a monthly pdf collecting the maps and art from Dungeon.

Hussar, are you being deliberately dishonest?

You listed Paizo as a "follower." You brought up their print-plus-PDF as evidence of WotC's "leadership."

All I did was point out that Paizo's print-plus-PDF wasn't a matter of following WotC at all, and that Paizo was doing it well before the DDI, and now you are acting like I made the claim that Paizo has made WotC their bitch.

Man up and admit that you screwed up, or at least quit lying about it.

 

[Staffan]

There's one thing from the ancient past that shows the difference between old-school and new-school WOTC.

Wizards started as an RPG company (their first product was The Primal Order, a system for playing gods that could be added on top of other systems, with specifics for how to adapt it to about twenty different systems in the back). They then happened to get a HUGE boost from Magic, and they went on something of a buying spree. They bought up the rights to a number of other RPGs, including Ars Magica and Talislanta, and made some of their own like Everway.

After a short while, WOTC realized that it didn't really make business sense for them to keep making niche RPGs (which take a lot of development time to do right) instead of focusing on Magic and, to a lesser degree, some of their board games and other card games. However, instead of just closing down the product lines, they went to great effort to sell those games to other companies. This, I think, is the act of a company who cares about the industry as a whole, instead of just looking at the bottom line.

When Alternity was cancelled, on the other hand (after Hasbro had bought the company, but Adkison was still on board), WOTC just closed down the product line. I do not know whether that was because they wanted to use parts of it for d20Modern, or if they just didn't want anyone else to have it, or maybe no-one was around willing to pay what they wanted for it.

I have no doubt that if 4e doesn't match up to expectations, current Wizards management will likely just close down the product line. I'd be very surprised if they sold it off, instead of keeping it around in order to produce the occasional novel or tie-in product.

 

[Hussar]

My Pathfinder subscription is on issue 19. They've given me a high-quality PDF from the beginning. That's at least a year and a half, and that's significantly before the DDI.

Hussar, are you being deliberately dishonest?

You listed Paizo as a "follower." You brought up their print-plus-PDF as evidence of WotC's "leadership."

All I did was point out that Paizo's print-plus-PDF wasn't a matter of following WotC at all, and that Paizo was doing it well before the DDI, and now you are acting like I made the claim that Paizo has made WotC their bitch.

Man up and admit that you screwed up, or at least quit lying about it.

Good grief. FINE. Whatever. You're still fixating on a single point here.

What other company has made the online effort that WOTC has?

What other company is trying to expand the market beyond existing players?

I'm very sorry I brought up Paizo. I should know better than that. Move on.