D&D 5E Isn't "Disciplined" Useless?

[pauljathome]

Okay, so the hobgoblin has an action that gives another hobgoblin advantage on its next attack against an enemy that's within reach of both of them. Is it just me, or is this ability mathematically stupid?

At least this silly ability is only in the playtest. WOTC pretty routinely made insansely bad powers. And often argued at length that they were, in fact, quite balanced.

The archetypical example from 4th ed is the Ranger Twin Strike ability vs whatever the heck that stupid one that added +2 was called. Yeah, I know that they eventually changed it so it wasn't quite as bad but that took something like 2 or 3 years IIRC.

 

[GameDoc]

Disciplined is a trait and requires no action to use. The creature gets to attack and then merely grants advantage to an adjacent ally of its choice provided that ally is also disciplined.

So if two hobgoblins stand side by side, they grant each other advantage.

If there is a rank of three or more of them, the first one grants advantage to the next and it moves on down the line, so only the first one attacks without advantage. Of course, if there is a second rank, the first guy there can send it down the line, the last guy hands it off to the one in front of him, who then sends it up the first rank and everyone on the first rank and all but the first guy in the second rank have advantage. This is particularly nasty if they have reach weapons that let the second rank attack the enemy as well. Even worse, add a third rank with ranged weapons.

If you are surrounded by hobgoblins, they can just round-robin the advantage and none goes without. The first guy doesn't get advantage in round 1, but the last guy grants it to him for round 2.

This is all meant to model how hobgoblins work as a disciplined and coordinated military unit. Particulalry if they are working only with their kind and acting on the same initiaitive, they all hold action for the one who is in the best strategic position in any given round to attack and kick of the chain of advantage.

Best tactic againsnt hobgoblins is to make them scatter and not let them form ranks or swarms. Otherwise they all get advantage.

 

[CapnZapp]

This is not as clear-cut as you might imply.

First off: it is now the year 2015, and the playtest abilities have been replaced. Just a friendly heads up

But for those of us running adventures like Scourge of the Sword Coast or, as in my case, Legacy of the Crystal Shard, it would still be useful to fully understand "Disciplined".

Q1: Is Disciplined a trait or an action? Or both?
It is presented as a trait, but it is referencing itself as an action.
This thread presumes it is an action. On the other hand, this thread proves this to be a bad idea...

Q2: Is Disciplined the same as Commander?

---

My own take would be that the MM ability/trait/whatever "Martial advantage" is to be added to all hobgoblins, granting them a level-appropriate (and thus scary) sneak-attack-like ability to all hobgobs for bonus damage when flanking.

Then, the +2 Commander/Disciplined business is replaced by Leadership, which you should give to boss/sub-boss hobgobs only. One minute per rest (read "always until death takes the hobgob" ) it can give a d4 as a bonus to attacks and saves, to its allies.

Cheers,

 

[Blackwarder]

Holy necrothread resurrection!!! what brought that up?

Warder

 

[CapnZapp]

Holy necrothread resurrection!!! what brought that up?

Warder

DMing Legacy.

 

[MoonSong]

This is not as clear-cut as you might imply.

First off: it is now the year 2015, and the playtest abilities have been replaced. Just a friendly heads up

But for those of us running adventures like Scourge of the Sword Coast or, as in my case, Legacy of the Crystal Shard, it would still be useful to fully understand "Disciplined".

Q1: Is Disciplined a trait or an action? Or both?
It is presented as a trait, but it is referencing itself as an action.
This thread presumes it is an action. On the other hand, this thread proves this to be a bad idea...

Q2: Is Disciplined the same as Commander?

---

My own take would be that the MM ability/trait/whatever "Martial advantage" is to be added to all hobgoblins, granting them a level-appropriate (and thus scary) sneak-attack-like ability to all hobgobs for bonus damage when flanking.

Then, the +2 Commander/Disciplined business is replaced by Leadership, which you should give to boss/sub-boss hobgobs only. One minute per rest (read "always until death takes the hobgob" ) it can give a d4 as a bonus to attacks and saves, to its allies.

Cheers,

You could just use the hobgoblin version in the MM you know.

 

[TerraDave]

Or the one in the free basic rules!

What a confusing thread...though it shows the gains of play-testing. This is the current version, which is clearly a trait and not an action:

Martial Advantage. Once per turn, the hobgoblin can deal an extra 7 (2d6) damage to a creature it hits with a weapon attack
if that creature is within 5 feet of an ally of the hobgoblin that isn’t incapacitated.

Its a nasty one.

 

[CapnZapp]

You could just use the hobgoblin version in the MM you know.

Thank you, Captain Obvious!

 

[CapnZapp]

Or the one in the free basic rules!

What a confusing thread...though it shows the gains of play-testing. This is the current version, which is clearly a trait and not an action:

Martial Advantage. Once per turn, the hobgoblin can deal an extra 7 (2d6) damage to a creature it hits with a weapon attack
if that creature is within 5 feet of an ally of the hobgoblin that isn’t incapacitated.

Its a nasty one.

Sure you could replace the monsters with entirely different stats.

But if you're curious on how things would work with the stats written, the words on the paper in front of you...

...then I assume EN World is the place to go! Am I right?

 

[TerraDave]

Sure you could replace the monsters with entirely different stats.

..

Yes, you could and they did. They play-tested it, and replaced it.

Yep, thats what happened.