D&D 5E Isn't "Disciplined" Useless?

[GX.Sigma]

Okay, so the hobgoblin has an action that gives another hobgoblin advantage on its next attack against an enemy that's within reach of both of them. Is it just me, or is this ability mathematically stupid?

Say there's two hobgoblins within reach of a PC.

If they both attack normally, I roll two dice. If one of them hits, one of them hits. If both of them hit, both of them hit.

Now let's say one of them uses its action to give the other one advantage. I roll two dice. If one of them hits, one of them hits. If both of them hit, one of them hits.

Am I missing something? Isn't it always better to not use "disciplined"?

 

[dd.stevenson]

If I read the text correctly, then the hobgoblin is not limited to other hobgoblins with this ability.

A hobgoblin might grant advantage to an ogre, for example.

Edit: Just reread the text. I think you're right--unless creatures other than hobgoblins get the Disciplined trait, it's pretty situational indeed.

 

[GreyICE]

Maybe it's meant to be a minor/swift action?

 

[Ultimatecalibur]

It seems that currently the only benefit that "Disciplined" gives is that while a Hobgoblin Leader is around they get +2 damage, but that doesn't mean that that will be the only benefit when 5e is finally published.

All it takes for the Disciplined action to be worthwhile is that the other creature gets an increase of 2.75 (3.75 if the original hobgoblin is under the effect of Command +2) average damage per round.

 

[Mark CMG]

So the useless should be disciplined as a swift action?


Someone had to post it before [MENTION=19675]Dannyalcatraz[/MENTION] .

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Thief!

 

[slobo777]

The only uses I can think of Disciplined is for aiding an ally when the hobgoblin itself cannot attack, or is suffering a huge penalty, or its disciplined ally is doing at least double the damage that it could do for some reason. Also perhaps if there is punishment effect in play for making each attack against the target, so it would be important to make fewer more accurate attacks. None of these would seem to come up very often, although it might allow hobgoblins to work around some spell effects.

 

[triqui]

It might has some meaning if you have hobgoblins with extra bonus from adventage (like rogues sneak), or if you use low rank and file hobgoblins to fuel up other higher level hobgoblin chieftains. Other than that, is completelly useless.

 

[mlund]

Weaker Hobgoblins being able to bump up stronger Hobgoblins could actually be pretty terrifying. If they create more stratification between ranks of Hobgoblins that could be very useful - or if PCs see more targeted penalizing effects against monsters. Yes, though, when all the monsters are at parity you'd never use the ability over attacking.

- Marty Lund

 

[Sekhmet]

If two identical Hobgoblins are trying to use Disciplined to their advantage, then you're correct in saying that it would be mathematically inferior to just attacking normally.

If a Hobgoblin is using Discipline to grant advantage to a Hobgoblin Leader against an opponent with a high AC, mathematically you are granting a higher chance to hit at that higher AC point, because one of them has a higher attack bonus.
I imagine that was the intention for this particular ability, but it could be used much more effectively with stranger pairs of creatures. Suppose a Hobgoblin rides a Dragon, pairs up with a Beholder, or any variety of fun combinations that would allow the relatively useless Hobgoblin attack with a more powerful option.