Will said:
Mmm... I think what rankles, a little, is the 'stuff I don't use/like' = 'broken' attitude.
A monk makes a better scout than a rogue, and possibly even a ranger. Among other things, the good saves will get the monk out of trouble, and the speed will get him back FAST.
A ranger might have a better BAB, but the monk has more attacks. Again, this is a situational thing... singular big, melee-oriented opponents tend to require high BAB. The game can't be balanced for every DM's style, you know. Against multiple opponents, the monk is going to do better than a ranger and possibly even a fighter.
Yes, a monk can't track very well, but for overall stealth, she compares favorably.
I would disagree about the paladin. The paladin gets a boost for saves, true, but over a bunch of levels, having a high save to begin with makes a huge difference. (Though a Pal2/MnkN... mmm.) And out of combat? I disagree. The paladin has... remove disease, and probably a good intimidate. ... And that's about it. Paladins will typically have lousy skills.
I think your crisis of expectations is giving you a somewhat distorted opinion of the class. Maybe that's presumptuous of me, I'm sorry.
What's funny is that monks are so feared in _my_ group that they have been forbidden in other campaigns. Heh.
Fair enough. I didn't mean to rankle, and I do generally make the distinction between things I merely don't like and things that are unbalanced. Frex, I don't *like* bards (personally) but I don't regard them as being unbalanced.
However, rangers actually have more attacks, eventually. If they go the two weapon fighting track, combined with their higher BAB, they get more attacks, ending up with six (I believe -- in any event, at least six) by 20th level. And most of their track they have as *many* attacks.
I strongly disagree that a monk makes a better scout than a rogue or ranger. Rogues can overcome obstacles that stop monks (locked doors, traps) while the ranger has the ability to track things that monks don't possess. Clearly, your mileage does vary, but rogues and rangers are the ones parties turn to again and again for the actual scouting.
A paladin's saving throws have two abilities feeding into them. Sure, the big bonuses from good saves add up -- but when two abilities feed into a single save, ouch, that can rack up some big numbers mighty fast. And monks get two skill points a level more than paladins . . . nice, but not earth shaking. Plus, they are diplomacy machines if your game goes in for that sort of thing. And they do more than cure disease -- they are pretty solid healers, too. Not quite as good as a cleric, but IME better than druids, and healing doesn't take away any other allocated resources for paladins. They don't have to choose at the beginning of the day whether they will take a healing spell or some other spell -- they can just heal that amount, every day. Which is, I think, an ability of incredible utility. Not to mention their mount and spells. The class features a paladin has, IMO, are far more useful not only to the paladin but the party than the monk's features.
Clearly, your experience varys. Maybe it is just a feature of how my DM runs her game, but since that's the actual scenario I find myself I'm gonna work with what I have.
) one of the key features in the monk class -- the rapid number of melee attacks.
