Itch.io is shadowbanning or deleting NSFW and LGBTQ content

[Muh]

I did just go to Itch and did a search for Thirsty Sword Lesbians and it's still there, accessible by search, and I could download it. OTOH, I already owned it; I have no idea what would happen if someone who didn't own it tried to buy it. Or maybe they're only deindexing video games and not tabletop games.

So I hope that this remains the case and only actually NSFW stuff is gone and they're not going to go beyond that. Considering how many LGBT+ charity bundles I've gotten from them, I really hope they're being extra careful.

TSL shows up for me when I search there and I don't own it.

 

[trappedslider]

But it's one freedom against another one in this case. Sure they might have the law on their side, but also Dredd Scott.

Suppose cash no longer exists and all payments are digital, how do you purchase something if the payment processors don't want you to be able to purchase it?

This whole thing reeks of ancap idealism.

As long as it's not discriminatory businesses can refuse to do business with whoever they want.

 

[Muh]

As long as it's not discriminatory businesses can refuse to do business with whoever they want.

They can, but should they always be allowed to? In my opinion: no.

In the case of payment processors, they should be forced to accept all legal transfers. This thread illustrates why.

 

[CleverNickName]

As long as it's not discriminatory businesses can refuse to do business with whoever they want.

I think the thrust of the argument is, this action will unfairly impact LGBTQIA+ game developers and consumers, therefore it's illegal discrimination.

 

[trappedslider]

I think the angle of the argument is that action will unfairly impact LGBTQIA+ game developers and consumers, therefore it's illegal discrimination.

right now we're reeling from the quick reaction of delist everything, from the statement of itcho

We are currently conducting a comprehensive audit of content to ensure we can meet the requirements of our payment processors. Pages will remain deindexed as we complete our review. Once this review is complete, we will introduce new compliance measures. For NSFW pages, this will include a new step where creators must confirm that their content is allowable under the policies of the respective payment processors linked to their account.

Only time will tell what the other side of this looks like.

I'll point out that well known adult video site pornhub got hit by the same payment processors and cleaned up their act and still host LGBTQIA+ content.

 

[J.Quondam]

Fwiw, you can go to itch.io itself and browse its search page. There are about 5700 items available tagged "LGBT", and that tag is available on the default selection dropdown menu (as opposed to just typing in your own search term, which is also possible). Otoh, tags like "Adult" and "NSWF" are not on the default dropdown, and they return just a few hits, apparently way down from thousands apiece before the delisting effort.

So I'm not sure how to square the active LGBT tag with reports that non-"Adult" LGBT material is being removed. Does anyone know how tags are assigned on itch.io? (I looked there, but can't find anything about that.) I'm wondering if some of this is down to items being tagged "Adult" when it's not actual porn but rather for having "mature themes" (eg, abuse, coming out, eating disorders, and other topics recently reported as being delisted), then getting swept up in the crackdown. If tags are assigned by the game dev, that seems fixable; but if they are community generated, that seems potentially abuseable if a group wanted to falsely flag material they don't like to get it removed.

 

[MGibster]

But can you prove VISA & MC are SPECIFICALLY TARGETING the Queer content creators? I'm no lawyer but doing so would be extremely difficult - and equally expensive in court.

At least here in the United States, this is where things get a bit complicated. If I'm a retailer, I have a right not to carry anything I don't want to carry. If I own a game store, I could refuse to carry Thirsty Sword Lesbians because I don't think it's a good game, I don't believe it's going to sell well in my market, or a myriad of other reasons including specifically on account of its LGBTQ content. I could refuse to carry Harlem Unbound because I'm an unreasonable man who complains about "woke nonsense," but I couldn't refuse to sell anything I carry to a Black customer on account of his race or skin color.

I think the thrust of the argument is, this action will unfairly impact LGBTQIA+ game developers and consumers, therefore it's illegal discrimination.

At least as far as US law goes, nobody's really made the case that it's illegal discrimination. If a business doesn't want to carry LGBTQ material, they don't have to. It may be discriminatory but it's not illegal.

 

[Morrus]

 

[Bill Zebub]

Fwiw, you can go to itch.io itself and browse its search page. There are about 5700 items available tagged "LGBT", and that tag is available on the default selection dropdown menu (as opposed to just typing in your own search term, which is also possible). Otoh, tags like "Adult" and "NSWF" are not on the default dropdown, and they return just a few hits, apparently way down from thousands apiece before the delisting effort.

So I'm not sure how to square the active LGBT tag with reports that non-"Adult" LGBT material is being removed. Does anyone know how tags are assigned on itch.io? (I looked there, but can't find anything about that.) I'm wondering if some of this is down to items being tagged "Adult" when it's not actual porn but rather for having "mature themes" (eg, abuse, coming out, eating disorders, and other topics recently reported as being delisted), then getting swept up in the crackdown. If tags are assigned by the game dev, that seems fixable; but if they are community generated, that seems potentially abuseable if a group wanted to falsely flag material they don't like to get it removed.

Yeah this is kind of getting to the point I was asking about before: is content being targeted just for being LGBTQ+, or does there just happen to be a high overlap between it and NSFW, and so it seems like LGBTQ+ is being targeted?

And there are two related things I believe are probably true in some cases:
1) There are probably censors on one side who hold LGBTQ+ content to a much stricter, and even unreasonable, standard because it is LGBTQ+.
2) There are probably also content creators who have unreasonably permissive standards of what constitutes NSFW. A subset of those creators produce LGBTQ+ content, and they might think they are being targeted for LGBTQ+, not for NSFW.

 

[Jd Smith1]

But it's one freedom against another one in this case.

Everything is one freedom against another. That's what keeps lawyers in business.